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[gsimon]

Hi all,

I'm searching for a little bit of advice as to whether becoming a patent agent or attorney is a good career path for me.  I love science/technology, I enjoy writing and working with people, and I believe my entire skill set is well suited to the patent agent/attorney career (I'm not really the laboratory type).  On the other hand though, the thought of working more than 50-60 hours/week terrifies me and I'm not sure I'm cut out for the long hours and general unhappiness that seems to pervade the attorney career.

Background: B.S. EE (graduating June 2010) from UCSB; GPA: 3.38
Experience:  EE R&D internship doing printed circuit board (PCB) design
Goals: No more than 50 hours/week (an occasional 60/hr week wouldn't kill me), ~$100k (more would obviously be nice, if possible), and the ability to work somewhat regular hours.

I'd say I'm extremely interested in the attorney career path, but I can't envision myself being happy while regularly working over 50-60 hours/week - I don't mind putting in more than 40, but 60 is out of my league.  At the same time, I'm not sure I can justify being a patent agent for the rest of my life when I could easily become a patent attorney and boost my salary (and job security and prestige, I imagine) - I'm just 21 years old, so my obligations at this point are still minimal and the near future would be the best time for law school if I were to go.

I've been quietly reading these forums for a while, and it seems that an in-house patent attorney might be a happy medium between the two extremes - but for the salary of an in-house attorney, is it even worth getting the law degree (as opposed to making a career out of an agent)?  Does an in-house attorney make $100k (in CA)?

Graduation is in sight, and I'm struggling to figure out what the best route to take is: Industry experience? Patent bar? Law school?  I know I posed alot of questions, but I'd greatly appreciate any insight anyone might have!

[klaviernista]

Have you thought about ultimately moving into business or consulting?  Many of my old clients were in the business of engineering venture capital financing for tech firms, and IP was a major concern for them.  If you manage to get a few years of experience in the patent field under your belt (as an agent) and then get an MBa (less time and money than a JD in most instances), you would have a pretty sweet background for that type of position and could make the money you want, in the hours/week you specified, and in a job that is actually pretty interesting.

[gsimon]

Hadn't really considered going into business - to be truthful, I don't know hardly anything about the field (although I imagine an MBA might fix that).  I'm beginning to think it makes most sense to get industry experience (perhaps in consulting/technical specialist) and start studying for the patent bar to try and become an agent?

[UVAgal4]

What are average salaries for patent agents?
100k seems high to me, and certainly not something that is realistic right off the bat.
Not sure if you are hoping for that right away or in 10+ years.

[Examinerguy]

What are average salaries for patent agents?
100k seems high to me, and certainly not something that is realistic right off the bat.
Not sure if you are hoping for that right away or in 10+ years.

I didn't think 100K as an agent took 10+ years in cities. Anyone shed light on this?

Crap I have to start making the turkey!

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

Crap I have to start making the turkey!

Brined and smoked, turned out perfect as always - my mother-in-law was steamed when mine disappeared and her "traditional" turkey is all the leftovers.

[Jonathan]

Spent the morning volunteering making meals for the poor with 2 of my sisters. We then had an enjoyable afternoon going to the higher peaks in SF and then had an early dinner at a restaurant.

Sororicide entered my head when one sister had a 4th cup of tea, after we ate. She was slowly sipping as she told stories about her cat. She ended up having 7 cups. That I put my jacket on and zipped it up didn't seem to register with her. The tea portion took over an hour.

After dinner, she insisted on a walk and inquired as to which way North is, around Union Square. I pointed in a farly wide sweep.. it's a little weird down there as to what N, E, S, and W is defined as. My answer did not satisfy her and then the pestering began. I pointed in one direction.. 'there's North.' No, not good enough.. I had to resolve my previous answer.

I then snapped. I just said 'Drop it!' She had more grumblings but did drop the subject. Then another cat story and my other sister snapped a bit.

The joys of family.

[xephay]

had a traditional Thanksgiving lunch (turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, mashed potatoes, etc.) and went to the Cowboys game at the new stadium.  then committed an unamerican thing: stayed at home BF morning (now) and not joined the crowds at the stores.     Friday after Thanksgiving is not a federal holiday--should be working instead?   

[mk1023]

had a traditional Thanksgiving lunch (turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, mashed potatoes, etc.) and went to the Cowboys game at the new stadium.  then committed an unamerican thing: stayed at home BF morning (now) and not joined the crowds at the stores.     Friday after Thanksgiving is not a federal holiday--should be working instead?   

Glad you had a good thanksgiving.

So now your son is going to look under the tree Christmas morning and find a 6x6 rubik's cube instead of Zhu Zhu pets?

Back before I started at the PTO I used to camp out for BF. I guess maybe now that I have a job the discounts don't seem worth it. Also so many of the deals are online. Amazon.com and bing cashback are just as good as in-store deals.

[xephay]

Glad you had a good thanksgiving.

sounds like you had a good week yourself, killing two birds with one stone (holiday and birthday together).

So now your son is going to look under the tree Christmas morning and find a 6x6 rubik's cube instead of Zhu Zhu pets?

rubik's cube?  what's that?  did you think i was asian?

i said i had turkey, not chicken. 

http://keyingredient.com/recipes/728/chicken-salad-ga-xe-phay/

[mk1023]

sounds like you had a good week yourself, killing two birds with one stone (holiday and birthday together).

At least more eventful than most (the short sale on the house I'm trying to buy was finally "approved"). I probably should have done some work though considering I have bunches of amendments to do before vacation. At least I didn't come in on Thanksgiving though (I know someone that told me he was coming in).

rubik's cube?  what's that?  did you think i was asian?

Rubik's cube isn't just for Asians. Rubik himself is Hungarian.

[xephay]

sounds like you had a good week yourself, killing two birds with one stone (holiday and birthday together).

At least more eventful than most (the short sale on the house I'm trying to buy was finally "approved"). I probably should have done some work though considering I have bunches of amendments to do before vacation. At least I didn't come in on Thanksgiving though (I know someone that told me he was coming in).

congrats for being a proud, first time home owner, esp of a big $$$ house at such a young age.    don't forget the house-warming.  (still waiting for your invite to the window ofc-warming.)  soon you'll be within minutes of Korea town, 7-corners, Fairfax where the Korean, Vietnamese and Chinese groceries and restaurants concentrate in the area.     (we know how much you love an asian buffet (and don't care much for pasta) for lunch.)

rubik's cube?  what's that?  did you think i was asian?

Rubik's cube isn't just for Asians. Rubik himself is Hungarian.

it was just a preemtive strike.  last summer a niece posted on facebook that we had a rubik's competition at a family union (with some videos), a friend of hers commented, 'oh, how Asian!'     thus the remark...

ps we managed to go out shopping BF afternoon for a NDS for my son--the 3 games themselves are nearly as costly as the handheld device!
no more rubik's for him for a while--he's already got about as many cubes as his dad.  i gave away my last 7x7 last month--actually lost it; didn't expect (another) niece to have been able to solve it.  my 6x6 has been boxed up lately (missing a piece).  wanna sell your 5x5, mk? 

sorry for posting NP"L" on the forum.  changed the subject line accordingly.

[mk1023]

It's already too late for an office warming. Although I know the short sale's been approved, I don't know how long closing will take. I probably won't move until January. Might be too cold for a house warming by then.

"(we know how much you love an asian buffet (and don't care much for pasta) for lunch.)"
I've had my fill of Green Olive for a while.

"sell your 5x5, mk?"
I finally ordered a 3x3, so I'm going to start working my way up.

[gsimon]

Is industry experience necessary for a patent agent/attorney?  Or is just useful for getting that first job?

[Robert K S]

(Back for more, eh?)

Not necessary; not necessarily even useful.  Most useful is an understanding of the patent system, how it works (i.e., laws, regs, procedure--not just the things you would have to study to take the bar exam, but also how good Office action replies, appeal briefs, etc. are written).

It would not be a waste of your time to look up a random sampling of cases on Public PAIR in the technology field or fields that interest you and follow them through from start to finish.  Note especially how you would have handled things differently than the practitioners who prosecuted the cases.  What arguments would you have employed to fight for the allowance of broader claims?  Or: What tools would you have used and what steps would you have taken to accomplish more compact prosecution for the client?  If you had been the one writing the application in the first place, what would you have done differently so as not to have run into the same problems as the actual applicants?

I would think a portfolio of your own specifications, amendments, responses, affidavits and briefs would make a more or less irresistible writing sample to be used in getting that first job.  Another outcome of such an exercise, and perhaps a more valuable one, is that you will discover how much you do or do not enjoy this line of work.