So sick of this

[born2bmild]

I do prosecution at a firm w/a 2000 hour billable requirement.  It is miserable.  I never relax or plan to have fun.  Basically, I work, or when I am not working, I feel like I should be at work.

Is it any better for you folks with lower billable requirements, smaller firms,  in-house, etc.?  I get emails from in-house counsel sometimes at 12 at night.  And clients somehow always want something done just when you finally think you can take a day off.  Everything has to be done now. 

I am beginning to think it isn't really my firm's billable requirement.  I think it is just the profession of law.  I am becoming convinced that lawyers in private practice really just don't have lives outside of work. 

Am I wrong?  The law degree was a lot of work, but I am not sure this is worth it.  Maybe go back to engineering, and at least be able to forget about work when I am not there. 

[petethebody]

Dude,

Let it all out.  This profession can blow, especially when you are young.  You get shat on all the time and told deadlines that are ridiculously earlier than necessary.  But, it passes.  Just stick to your guns.

Also, I think it may partially be your firm.  Making 2000 on prosecution alone sucks and is probably damn near impossible.  I would recommend trying to get on some litigation to get some change up. 

Also, once you go in house, I have heard you have substantially more weekends off, if that helps.

Hang in there and don't let it get to you. 

[TataBox]

2000 prosecution alone is tough.  We are at 2200, but I get to mix in a bit of IP lit every now and then, some opinion work, and some due diligence.  And maybe a twice a week, I get to make some appearances and screw around in court.  Its not too bad.  It is actually fun, even if it is unrelated to IP.  All clients want things done immediately.  I get emails at all hours as well.  That doesn't change.  For me, things change once you bring in your own clients, because they are your clients.  And if you treat them right, you have security.

Last week I had a client who drafted their own 15 page licensing agreement.  I wasn't privy to negotiations or anything else, but was told to clean it up in 8 - 10 hours, and the next day.  Lots of fun.

[Obviously]

At least you get to do non-pat prosecution work.  In my former life as a BigLaw associate in a firm that strictly adheres to the "early specialization" school of thought I did nothing but prep-and-pros, nothing.  No lit support, no dd, no IP transactional.  All of the actual lawyering was hoarded by senior-senior associates (8yr+) and non-equity partners that were way to expensive to be drafting apps and OA responses.

My suggestion is to jump in-house if you can.  I do have some late nights and weekends, but they are rare.  In BigLaw I was in the office 60+ hours per week to bill 40 if I was lucky (the closest I ever got to our 2000 billable target was 1890).  In BigCorp I am in the office 40-50 per week, and now I get to tell BigLaw lawyers what to do.

[klaviernista]

Born2bmild:  I totally understand.  I used to work for a firm with a 2000 billable hour requirement doing 75% pros 25% client counseling work and it was a real struggle.  Even though I was pretty efficient (I could bill 85-90% of my time), I still ended up working 2300-2400 hours per year.  Not an easy life.

Funny thing was, I tried to reduce my hours by taking advantage of my old firms part time policy.  All that ended up happening was that I was obligated to bill 1600 hours, but ended up billing 2000+ again and spending the same amount of time in the office, all the while taking home 80% of what I used to take home.

To make a long story short, I burned out almost completely after 4 years of working for my old firm.  I was miserable. I stayed up most nights until 2-3am in an effort to prolong the break between work days as long as possible. And I started looking for ANY way out.  In all seriousness, I considered everything from opening up a dunkin donuts franchise, to going back to school, to going into government contracts, to going back to work at the PTO (gasp!).  I really didn't care if I took a 50% pay cut, because I was sick of not having any form of a life. 

Ultimately, I got lucky and managed to land an in-house gig with a mid sized technology firm in NH (thanks to DogDayPM for making me aware of the job opening).  I've been working here about 3 weeks, and I can already tell that I will have a much better work life balance.  Instead of working 7AM to 7PM, I am working from 8AM-5PM.  I get good benefits (health insurance, 401k match, disability, etc.) and 6 weeks of paid vacation (21 personal days and 12 holidays per year).  And I still get to do patent law, which I love.

So, hang in there, and keep your eyes open for different types of positions.  There are definitely some jobs in the legal field where you can work to live and not live to work. 

[gabbo]

My god you guys are really making me reconsider going down the patent attorney path.  Nevertheless, I have a couple of questions to sort of guage whats out there.

Are they're any IP firms/boutiques that require less than 2000 billables per year?

How often do you have weekends off?

[bleedingpen]

Are they're any IP firms/boutiques that require less than 2000 billables per year?

Yes, in fact, several have 1650 billable hour targets.  The type of work will greatly influence how easy or hard it is to hit the hours requirements. 

Keep in mind that message boards routinely become sounding boards for the disgruntled and don't always reflect the general consensus.  That does not mean that the OP is not sincere, but just to take everything into perspective. 

[klaviernista]

1650 billables is a very attainable goal in prosecution.  2000 billables, on the other hand, is not.

Most big IP shops have higher billable requirements.  So, you will generally find better work life balance in the prosecution game in a smaller shop.  if you plan to do litigation, 2000 billables is pretty easy to obtain, but its feast or famine.  You will be insanely busy for ~6-8 months of the year, and be slow(er) the remainder of the year.

Please don't let me discourage you from entering the IP game.  It is a great field.  Just go into it with your eyes open to the risk and do not let yourself be lead astray by the possibilty of a huge paycheck.

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

~[... -- ...]~ 

 

[Examinerguy]

On average, do the firms who require 2000 billable hours pay proportionally better than the ones who require 1650 hours? That is...2000 hours is 21% more than 1650. On average, does the attorney make a 21% higher salary?

[stuffball]

OP should definitely find other kinds of work to supplement (patent consultation, patentabilty opinions, landscape searching, etc.).  I don't think I could survive only only prep and pro and I've been doing this for a while.  2000 is a killer if it's all strictly prosecution.

That said, this job has ups but it also has downs.  Engineering can be more fulfilling in a lot of ways.  The lack of job stability and the low pay, however, make it generally crappier than legal work, in my opinion.  Incidentally, I've done both professionally.

1650 is a really low billable requirement for an attorney.  I had a 1650 billable requirement when I was a law student.

[smgsmc]

I have a question related to these billable hours requirements.  Some firms I've talked to make a distinction between "billable hours" and "actual billed hours"; that is, not all billable hours are in fact actually billed out (for example, if there is a cap, as in flat-rate cases).  They then define an efficiency as actual hours billed/billable hours.  If your efficiency is too low, you're out.  How common is this distinction?  I find these compensation schemes bizarre.  Also makes it difficult to compare opportunities.

[ChrisWhewell]

I do prosecution at a firm w/a 2000 hour billable requirement.  It is miserable.  I never relax or plan to have fun.  Basically, I work, or when I am not working, I feel like I should be at work.

Is it any better for you folks with lower billable requirements, smaller firms,  in-house, etc.?  I get emails from in-house counsel sometimes at 12 at night.  And clients somehow always want something done just when you finally think you can take a day off.  Everything has to be done now. 

I am beginning to think it isn't really my firm's billable requirement.  I think it is just the profession of law.  I am becoming convinced that lawyers in private practice really just don't have lives outside of work. 

Am I wrong?  The law degree was a lot of work, but I am not sure this is worth it.  Maybe go back to engineering, and at least be able to forget about work when I am not there. 

I've been practicing privately for a while and can say I have as many stacks around here as I did when in-house on a 200+ case docket.  No quotas, I don't have time to be an actuary, just do as much as I can without being pressured because pressure can kill creativity, and put it down when I want to  --- which is often but never happens because there is always something or someone needing something done.  Unpaid overtime.  No boss.  Many bosses.  As my good acquaintance Dr. Crawford once quipped:  "I'm busier than a 3-legged cat on a hot tin roof shoveling dog s4!T."  To that I'll add:  ".... and singing".  Its six of one or a half dozen of the other, tradeoffs for every situation and the grass really is always greener off the meadow.  Find a market segment that is underserved or unserved, and focus on ways of reaching that segment.  The river of commerce has many bends and eddys.  I've seen a few big crawfish thriving in the eddies Nature provides, and even a few large trout and bass.



Edit ++   the question is, do you want to be busy, busier, or busiest, and whom do you prefer to have as a master ?   Even in-house with only one "official" boss, one has many masters.  As Zimmerman (Dylan) sang:  "Ya gotta serve somebody."  Were we chess buddies, I might disclose some of the contents of my non-published work entitled: "Bullet Dodging for Patent Folk and the Target You Pasted on Your Back by Becoming Registered, an Addendum to he Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"  King to queens bishop when the pawns are right.

[smgsmc]

I have a question related to these billable hours requirements.  Some firms I've talked to make a distinction between "billable hours" and "actual billed hours"; that is, not all billable hours are in fact actually billed out (for example, if there is a cap, as in flat-rate cases).  They then define an efficiency as actual hours billed/billable hours.  If your efficiency is too low, you're out.  How common is this distinction?  I find these compensation schemes bizarre.  Also makes it difficult to compare opportunities.

It's been exactly as you described in each of the 4 law firms where I've worked.  I think it's pretty common.

Thanks, one firm I just talked to wants 1800 actual billed hrs (strictly prep and pros).  At 90% efficiency, that would be 2000 hr billable, which posters are saying is almost unbearable.  Lots of variables I know, but what is considered a viable efficiency?  Do even very experienced practitioners hit 99%?

[petethebody]

On average, do the firms who require 2000 billable hours pay proportionally better than the ones who require 1650 hours? That is...2000 hours is 21% more than 1650. On average, does the attorney make a 21% higher salary?

No, the attorney just lies 21% of the time.