Student or School ownership?

[blankrider]

Recently my high school computer science teacher asked me to create a program for an organization at our school.  The organization liked it so much that they will be attempting to sell it to the rest of the centers across the nation.  I did the majority of the programming at home, but i did have the source code up on school computers.  I understand that if i was being paid by the school (employee) it would be theirs, but how does this stand as a non-paid student.  I did sign an acceptable use policy but no where does it state that anything made on school computers is school property.

Also, can i ask the school to sign away their rights and get the program copyrighted under my name (if they do have rights to it)?

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

Recently my high school computer science teacher asked me to create a program for an organization at our school.  The organization liked it so much that they will be attempting to sell it to the rest of the centers across the nation.  I did the majority of the programming at home, but i did have the source code up on school computers.  I understand that if i was being paid by the school (employee) it would be theirs, but how does this stand as a non-paid student.  I did sign an acceptable use policy but no where does it state that anything made on school computers is school property.

Also, can i ask the school to sign away their rights and get the program copyrighted under my name (if they do have rights to it)?

Hi, first thing I'd say is you should repost your question over on the copyright forum where those with more knowledge of copyright issues are likely to see the question.  See this link http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/index.php/board,8.0.html

Second - you are the sole author of the program?  You mentioned an acceptable use policy - this sounds like a general policy relating to use of the schools computers, rather than something you signed specifically relating to the program you wrote, right?

If you're the sole author (and an unpaid student) I'm struggling to understand why the organization thinks they can sell your work for their own profit.  BUT PLEASE DO repost over at the copyright board for a hopefully more complete review of the issues.  I haven't paid much attention to copyrights in a long time.

[blankrider]

I've had several teachers warn me that the school still has ownership of it.  Their source was a lawsuit a TEACHER fought and lost, but he was a paid employee.  I'll repost in copyright forums.  Thanks

[ChrisWhewell]

If you're under legal age, my guess is that it is your parents who control the IP rights in anything you may create, and it might be possible that your having signed anything is of little or no effect whatsoever.

I'd check with a lawyer in your State.   

[blankrider]

I wouldn't mind if my parents owned the rights because i would get my money then 

[ChrisWhewell]

People often make wrong assertions, everywhere.    I once attempted to record a contract in a county clerks office.   The lady's testosterone must have been surging that day, as she adamantly refused.   I sternly told her what her job is, she freaked out and called a deputy - I told her to call the county attorney.  She did, he came over with the book, and after about 20 mins, the kind lady finally did her job and recorded it, although the deputy looked like he wanted to imprison me for attempting to record a contract.

My daughter was wrongfully charged with a minor infraction, the citation containing bizarre, inaccurate information.  At arraignment we requested a more definite statement, and to see a charging instrument prior to entering a plea.  I told the prosecutor that I am her father and that she is a minor, that I am representing her in the matter and that any questions be directed to me.   LOL.   He kept trying to get her to say something, but she would not, of course.

Point is, people make mistakes all the time.  We don't expect them to, thinking they ought by after passage of so much time by now figure out how to do things pretty much right.    School people know far less about law, generally speaking, than do country recorders and prosecuting attorneys.   

The art resides in being polite, cheery, tactful, and calm in helping others pleasantly overcome their mistakes, without making them feel insulted.  I think a lot of people are waaaayyyyy oversensitive these days.

Good luck, and keep studying hard !!

My guess is that your parents control the rights.   

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

I've had several teachers warn me that the school still has ownership of it.  Their source was a lawsuit a TEACHER fought and lost, but he was a paid employee.  I'll repost in copyright forums.  Thanks

At the moment it seems the copyright-o-philes are still asleep () so I'll keep responding here.  You've hit the nail on the head already and I'm surprised the teachers don't recognize the difference in the two situations (teacher's work in the normal course of their employ is normally owned by the school/employer vs. a student's "extra" and unpaid work).

[Isaac]

If you're the sole author (and an unpaid student) I'm struggling to understand why the organization thinks they can sell your work for their own profit.  BUT PLEASE DO repost over at the copyright board for a hopefully more complete review of the issues.  I haven't paid much attention to copyrights in a long time.

The student probably owns the copyright, but surely the organization also has an implied or oral license at least covering their own use of the student's the program.  Probably doesn't extend to distributing the program to others for free or for pay, but perhaps the organization might think they have more than they do.  If the student expects to be paid anything signficant, then the student should consider what leverage they have over the organization which could simply abandon the whole project.

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

If the student expects to be paid anything signficant, then the student should consider what leverage they have over the organization which could simply abandon the whole project.

Isaac, good point there.  If Blankrider is still paying attention to this thread, it might do to discuss what actual outcomes are good ones with his/her parents.

For example, if the student asserts his* copyright what will the organization do?  What will the broader association of organizations do?  Would they consider purchasing the program from the student without the recommendation of the local-based organization?  Maybe first he should put the local org on notice that he is the owner of the program, but at the same time signal a willingness to work together with them to further sell/distribute the software.  I don't know what's reasonable in terms of rate so of course my ignorant assumption is that a 50-50 split might be a good start.

*(sorry, I'm going to switch to gender male old-school used to be considered neutral since the "her/his" stuff trips me up at this time o'night, forgive me)