JSonnabend

[ParadiseIP]

I would be wary of starting an EE program because the subject matter is so different.  I don't know many people who are drawn to neuroscience AND electrical engineering. 

Did you ever consider doing any other kind of law?  A few years of experience doing medical malpractice litigation (for example) would put you way ahead of where you would be with an EE degree.

Basically, it sounds like you have a great skill set and may be inadvertently limiting your options by ignoring things except patent law.  This sounds like a job for Richard Bolles (author of What Color is Your Parachute)!

[dz]

Here is a suggestion for AA123.

How about just taking only the necessary undergraduate level EE classes, assuming you already satisfy the math prerequisite to do so?  There are only a few core undergraduate EE classes [circuits, devices, electromagnetism, etc.], but they build on each other, so you need 1.5 to 2 years to build up that EE foundation.  Then take one year to finish a masters program in EE.  A course work track EE masters program is about 30 credit hours, which is roughly one year's work.  That will give you an advanced degree in EE.  I think one year of undergraduate senior project is not as valuable as one year of masters degree, at least if credential is the goal.

The advantage of the previous approach is that you can still have a part time job while taking those core undergraduate EE classes.  On the other hand, if you also need to take math classes such as vector calculus, differential equations, linear algebra, etc., then maybe undergraduate program is a better option.

Since you are still young, you should go for the holy grail, assuming you are not put off by the high degree of math in the EE programs.

[kjw5029]

dz,

I have given some thought to doing this.  I have the prerequisite engineering math already completed, but in a different field unrelated to EE or CS/CE.  I have always had an interest in CS, however, and even managed to land an internship programming for a couple years very early in my undergrad career.  My only issue is that I haven't been able to determine what courses I would have to take in order to obtain that second BS in any of those areas.  To determine your 1.5-2 years, did you just look at your undergraduate school's curriculum and make a rough estimate based on credits?  I'm not sure of any other way to find out, and from what it looks like, it may even take longer for me even though I already graduated as a structural engineer.  Any insight is greatly appreciated.

[dz]

kjw5029,

The major classes in EE often starts at second year, but there may be a elementary level EE class at the second half of first year.  After third year [maybe even the first half of third year], you will have the foundation to take graduate level glasses.  So that gives you an idea of how much time it will take to build the foundation for graduate level EE classes.

The math requirement for EE is fairly high.  You will need ordinary and partial differential equations, linear algebra, and maybe vector calculus.  So a student will need more time to build the foundation if he hasn't taken those classes.

Hope this insight helps.

[kjw5029]

dz,

Yes it does.  Thank you very much.  I have already taken and completed the math courses that you listed, and I have taken two basic EE courses.  My school required that I take a couple basic courses in circuitry (something to do with being an accredited engineering program of sorts - I can't remember exactly).  I think I will consult my UG school and see exactly how long it would take me to obtain the degree, but I still appreciate your insight.

[Robert K S]

Why would you go for a B.S. EE?  You are probably qualified to attempt an M.S. EE.  You may have to take some undergraduate EE courses as prerequisites, but that would be true otherwise anyway.

Biomedical engineering frequently encompasses EE topics as well and depending on your school, advisor, research, particular program of study, etc., may end up being more EE than anything else.

ETA: Basically I'm in agreement with dz.

[kjw5029]

Robert K S,

Where you talking to me or the original poster?  If you were talking to me, you may be right.  In fact, you may know a whole lot more about it than I do.  I still have to, at the very least, check with my previous school and see what their requirements are.  The idea of going back to school to get a different engineering degree was really just a minuscule thought in the first place.  I need to resolve my current situation (crappy law school) before I should even think about that.

[superman10]

in the past year or so, i have heard several times about this strategy of going back to school to pick up an EE degree to be more marketable. in fact, it was just posted here two weeks ago: http://www.intelproplaw.com/ip_forum/index.php/topic,12956.0.html

i personally don't think it's a good idea because all you're doing is getting into this because it's "hot." i think firms first and foremost want a technical person (yes, a nerd), someone who picks EE as a major even though they could do anything else for that undergrad degree. i think hiring partners at firms would probably see this is an attempt to just cross it off a checklist, instead of being someone who genuinely was interested in EE enough to do it even though it's challenging. i think they would feel safer hiring someone who had picked up the degree before law school - and let's face it, they have their pick of who they want already. the market for patent attorneys is definitely bad right now.

i think anyone considering this strategy needs to first get feedback from a hiring partner that yes, going back to get that degree would be viewed the same as having it in the first place. even though you still pick up that technical background, i think firms might be wary of hiring someone who gets a degree just cause it's hot. plus, i've never actually met any patent attorney who went back.

if i were you, i'd try to find if anyone has actually done this successfully. more importantly, i would try to get feedback from actual hiring partners at firms and ask them if it would make you marketable before throwing time, money. and effort at it.

[Robert K S]

Where you talking to me or the original poster?

My response was directed to the original poster, who listed his options as M.S. in Organic Chemistry, M.S. in Biomedical Engineering, and B.S. in Electrical Engineering.  With his undergraduate background and maybe a small number of undergraduate prerequisite courses, he's probably qualified to get an M.S. in EE in less time than a second B.S.

[stuwags]

I would like to add, for what it's worth...

[Currenty finishing BSEE, waiting for LS acceptances] One important consideration I think should be noted is whether or not you would at all enjoy EE either.  One big barrier for most EEs in undegrad is electromagnetics.  I have known some very bright people (probably brighter than me) who just couldn't follow it and consequently took a different major.  EM is involved in everything from semiconductors to power to communication.  My recommendation would be to audit (or at least sit in on) the undergraduate level electromagnetics course first to see if you want to continue.  You should have the requisite knowledge, assuming you took vector calculus, maybe a little dif/eq.

Just as I don't think I could handle O-Chem, I think many can't handle EM, however intelligent.  And if you don't get EM, nor like it, but don't find out until too late you could waste a lot of time and money.

[Examinerguy]

Don't let Emag prevent you from doing EE. In every major you have your 2 or 3 courses that are extremely difficult (relative to all of the others in the major)...worst case scenario is you get your C and move on. Or you get your F and retake the course

[tech_spec]

I would like to add, for what it's worth...

[Currenty finishing BSEE, waiting for LS acceptances] One important consideration I think should be noted is whether or not you would at all enjoy EE either.  One big barrier for most EEs in undegrad is electromagnetics.  I have known some very bright people (probably brighter than me) who just couldn't follow it and consequently took a different major.  EM is involved in everything from semiconductors to power to communication.  My recommendation would be to audit (or at least sit in on) the undergraduate level electromagnetics course first to see if you want to continue.  You should have the requisite knowledge, assuming you took vector calculus, maybe a little dif/eq.

Just as I don't think I could handle O-Chem, I think many can't handle EM, however intelligent.  And if you don't get EM, nor like it, but don't find out until too late you could waste a lot of time and money.

my god, I loved E&M, optics, acoustics, anything wave-based.  But hated computer architectures and anything related to chip design. However, dropping out of the major based on a single class is just silly. You take it, pass it, and get along with your major, taking electives in whatever you actually like.  What kind of weak engineering school do you go to that has people dropping out of EE just because they have to take electromagnetics?  Just like in law school, you don't drop out of law school if you don't like crim law - you drop out if you don't like law in general.

[stuwags]

I'm not saying that getting less than an A means drop out, just that if you don't get EM at all, maybe you should reconsider.  I think it's a foundational course, unless you go more the way of computer architecture.  But in that case, you can just do a computer engineering degree.  MY EM class was a nightmare, and I pulled a B-, but I learned a lot and I enjoyed the topics.  Just seems to me like if you can't at all stand EM topics you'd be better off in computer engineering, even computer science.

Almost all of my classes since EM build on either electrostatics, magnetostatics, or electromagnetic radiation, all of which are EM topics.  I know plenty who scraped out a C, didn't get it or like it, and continue to hate all of their other classes.  I just think there are more ways to go than being fixated on any degree you can't enjoy.

We all have things we do and don't like, I realize.  My point is try out a class that may give you a better idea of whether the degree is worth it to you.  If the OP was from a major more closely related to EE I wouldn't worry, but as others have noted the life sciences and EE are very different courses of study.  After OP has already spent 7 years in school, wouldn't want him to get 2 years into EE and decide it's not for him.

[AA123]

dz, Robert K S, and Examinerguy,

Many, many thanks for your candid comments and great suggestions about my initial inquiry for which degree to persue.  I did not consider the MS EE option until you suggested it.  I looked into that option and, like you said, it is available to me and obtainable in same or less time than a BS EE.  I really appreciate the idea, and I don't think I would have stumbled on that option without your suggestions.  You guys have been very generous of your time and energy in assisting a perfect stranger, and the world could use more people like you.

superman10,

I respectfully disagree with your comment.  Hiring partners may find someone who takes an opportunity to gain an in-demand technical expertise in EE during the worst job market of the last 50-70 years to be a sign of perseverance and commitment to patent prosecution.

stuwags,

I completely understand your point about not liking the classes because they are different from life science courses.  But the truth is that I'm not doing this degree to find my second academic passion.  I'm doing it to gain a skill set and knowledge base that I am currently missing.  I am expecting it to be difficult, frustrating, and rather unenjoyable.  But, I look at it as a means to an end. And I am hopeful that the end will be satisfying enough to justify the means.

Everyone,

Any thoughts?

[superman10]

superman10,

I respectfully disagree with your comment.  Hiring partners *may* find someone who takes an opportunity to gain an in-demand technical expertise in EE during the worst job market of the last 50-70 years to be a sign of perseverance and commitment to patent prosecution.

You're right...they *may*...or they may just keep hiring more traditional candidates (of whom there is not exactly a shortage). I personally have not heard of this strategy working out successfully for anyone, and in the end, (I'm assuming) you want a job at a firm. From my experience, I think firms want people who would have chosen those degrees on their own and are engineers "at heart." So, I would advise that you get feedback from firms whether this is true before throwing more time/money/effort at it.

That said, going back for that tech degree would certainly show a lot of character/perseverance, I'd just hate to see you assume something and then find out later that your assumption was not correct. Good luck!