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[fingerling23]

Hello everyone,

I did read most of the book “patent it yourself”, I must say it gives lots of advices, but how about the online shops on internet?

My invention is a novel product for consumer. For example, if I just make patent protection in Europe at EPO, I can chose seven European countries, but the consumer can buy directly on the internet shop outside Europe, like Asia which is always much cheaper as well.
Today, most of products are produced in Asia.

The internet online shops are booming, so no way to hunt the people that have infringed on my patent. Especially if I spend lots of money for the EPO patent, with the risk of no money income, no chance to court the infringer with attorney.

My conclusion, the Patent protection on just some countries may be waist of money.
The details of final product can’t be kept secret for 20 years.

Is there a way to sell invention to manufacturer without a PPA and without a regular Patent application, avoiding the risk of stealing my invention??

The solution may be, file a PPA and try to sell the Patent on international countries, pay the international Patent application with loyalty income.
But, if I show my invention at international countries without success, I can’t make the international Patent application. Later, they will make the Patent application thanks to my demonstration.

I’m an inventor, all the Patent procedure stuff and fees are too much for me. Is there a change to work for companies/organisations as an external inventor getting a good salary?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks indeed, always very helpful.

Fingerling23

[JimIvey]

So many questions....  Let's see if I can help at all.

Hello everyone,

I did read most of the book “patent it yourself”, I must say it gives lots of advices, but how about the online shops on internet?

My invention is a novel product for consumer. For example, if I just make patent protection in Europe at EPO, I can chose seven European countries, but the consumer can buy directly on the internet shop outside Europe, like Asia which is always much cheaper as well.
Today, most of products are produced in Asia.

The internet online shops are booming, so no way to hunt the people that have infringed on my patent. Especially if I spend lots of money for the EPO patent, with the risk of no money income, no chance to court the infringer with attorney.

If you want to stop infringement in any particular country, you need a patent in that country.  You have to decide, for each country, whether enforcement of a patent is likely to produce enough money to justify the expense of getting a patent in that country.  Without papering the world in patents, you will not be able to stop all using, making, and selling of your invention throughout the world.  Even with patents all over the world, some countries just don't have effective patent protection.  So, first, I'd suggest getting used to the idea that you can't stop everyone from using your technology.

For most people in the US, stopping others from making, using, selling, and importing the patented thing in the US alone is sufficient.  Anyone making the thing here for export is infringing.  Anyone selling them here for export is infringing.  So, you can capture quite a lot of activity with a US patent. 

My conclusion, the Patent protection on just some countries may be waist of money.
The details of final product can’t be kept secret for 20 years.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Secrecy is not required to protect a patented thing.  However, yes, seeking patent protection in a country where you have no means to enforce your patent in court and/or enough infringement to justify the expense of enforcement would be a waste of money.

Is there a way to sell invention to manufacturer without a PPA and without a regular Patent application, avoiding the risk of stealing my invention??

Yes, but not all manufacturers will buy and you always risk someone stealing your invention.

Some like to have a PPA on file if for no other reason than to precisely define the thing they're paying for. 

The solution may be, file a PPA and try to sell the Patent on international countries, pay the international Patent application with loyalty income.
But, if I show my invention at international countries without success, I can’t make the international Patent application. Later, they will make the Patent application thanks to my demonstration.

Most countries require that a patent application be filed in the name of someone who invented it, not got the idea from someone else.  I'm not aware of any countries that are exceptions to that.  So, they shouldn't be able to get a patent on something you show them. 

And, before you start counting all your royalties from extra-US applications, you should try to talk to someone who's had success doing that and see how it works.  For what it's worth, I don't know anyone who's had success doing that.

I’m an inventor, all the Patent procedure stuff and fees are too much for me. Is there a change to work for companies/organisations as an external inventor getting a good salary?

My understanding is that you wouldn't be an external inventor; you'd be hired by the company.  Exactly what you'd get in exchange for your patent (application) or idea is up to your negotiating skill and the particular company that would hire you.

Regards.

[fingerling23]

The solution may be, file a PPA and try to sell the Patent on international countries, pay the international Patent application with loyalty income.
But, if I show my invention at international countries without success, I can’t make the international Patent application. Later, they will make the Patent application thanks to my demonstration.

(JimIvey wrote)
Most countries require that a patent application be filed in the name of someone who invented it, not got the idea from someone else.  I'm not aware of any countries that are exceptions to that.  So, they shouldn't be able to get a patent on something you show them. 


Thanks JimIvey, I didn't know it,
so if I start the patent application in europe and do show my invention on a asian country, during the patent pending and before the 12 months are past. But they are not interested, I do not make the patent protection on that asian country (do not have $$$$), when the 12 months are past they still can't make the patent protection on the asian country??? that would be great, it just will be a free trade place without monopoly, right?
Cheers

[fingerling23]

My conclusion, the Patent protection on just some countries may be waist of money.
The details of final product can’t be kept secret for 20 years.

(JimIvey wrote)
I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  Secrecy is not required to protect a patented thing.  However, yes, seeking patent protection in a country where you have no means to enforce your patent in court and/or enough infringement to justify the expense of enforcement would be a waste of money.


The meaning of my conclusion is that a partial patent protection, for example patent protection only in Europe, may be waist of money. While on these days the selling on the www (world wide web) are booming. There is no change to check infringement when the consumer buy items on the internet stores from USA and Asia, while much cheaper.

Of course, with a patent protection in Europe you can check the importation, production, local store selling infringement. But on this days, just a small part is left to check for infringement, while:
-Production in Europe is to expensive. Asia, middle-east and south America are already manufacturing everything.
-The small and medium local stores are disappearing, just some big stores stay in business. So less importation.

As the details of final product can’t be kept secret for 20 years. I must Patent it with strategy, keeping an eye on the expenses I must support year after year, and estimate the potential market on the countries.

The solution is make patent protection world wide in the international organisation, but is out of budget.
Well, I really hope my plan will work.

[JimIvey]

Thanks JimIvey, I didn't know it,
so if I start the patent application in europe and do show my invention on a asian country, during the patent pending and before the 12 months are past. But they are not interested, I do not make the patent protection on that asian country (do not have $$$$), when the 12 months are past they still can't make the patent protection on the asian country??? that would be great, it just will be a free trade place without monopoly, right?
Cheers

If I understand you correctly, yes, they should not be able to patent something that they didn't invent but were rather shown.  However, having said that, I've had a client where their Taiwanese manufacturer did exactly that -- lied about inventorship and got a patent in Taiwan.  My client later sued here in the US for a number of things, including that, prevailed and never collected. 

So, there's what's legal and then there's what people do.  Those two things are not necessarily one and the same.

Regards.

[ChrisWhewell]

Hello everyone,

I did read most of the book “patent it yourself”, I must say it gives lots of advices, but how about the online shops on internet?

My invention is a novel product for consumer. For example, if I just make patent protection in Europe at EPO, I can chose seven European countries, but the consumer can buy directly on the internet shop outside Europe, like Asia which is always much cheaper as well.
Today, most of products are produced in Asia.

The internet online shops are booming, so no way to hunt the people that have infringed on my patent. Especially if I spend lots of money for the EPO patent, with the risk of no money income, no chance to court the infringer with attorney.

My conclusion, the Patent protection on just some countries may be waist of money.
The details of final product can’t be kept secret for 20 years.

Is there a way to sell invention to manufacturer without a PPA and without a regular Patent application, avoiding the risk of stealing my invention??

The solution may be, file a PPA and try to sell the Patent on international countries, pay the international Patent application with loyalty income.
But, if I show my invention at international countries without success, I can’t make the international Patent application. Later, they will make the Patent application thanks to my demonstration.

I’m an inventor, all the Patent procedure stuff and fees are too much for me. Is there a change to work for companies/organisations as an external inventor getting a good salary?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks indeed, always very helpful.

Fingerling23

Unless a person has USD 250000+, its impossible to obtain protection in all commercially-meaningful venues, but focusing on a single venue having a large market where a person has resources to patent and enforce can be done.

Whether an entity would want to purchase rights will depend on whether you can either knock their socks off on the concept alone, which is rare; or if you can establish cash flows from actual manufacture and sale of the item.  Filing under PCT delays national stage entry by about 30 months, and for many affords an ample time window to make an sell the articles, thus proving a cash flow, which cash flow can then be used as evidence of actual commercial potential to would-be purchasers of patent rights.

One problem some inventors have, is that they invent things that our outside the scope of their own ability to manufacture the article.  In those cases, an outside investor may be needed and their viewpoint will be a risk versus return analysis.  You'll lose a piece of the pie, but the investor takes on the risk in exchange.  Acquiring an investor or venture capitalist will require demonstration of a business model and support of its feasibility.