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[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

If you actually bother to read the chain of posts you are commenting on, it might help us all in getting truly insightful responses from you.

Yes, but you should realize that I had bacon and eggs with iced coffee for breakfast this morning.

[ChrisWhewell]

Could be.  Most of these cases are different in some regards and rarely will any single statement be applicable to all.  Its especially difficult since OP's don't generally give all the pertinent info.   I'd almost guarantee that if you do what you suggested, you'll get at least an objection, and possibly a 112.  I won't comment on the use of functional language other than to say that my Big Gorilla client doesn't seem to mind it, and the head honcho is very picky about what goes inside.  He signs the checks and I don't argue with that.

Not sure what most of this is about. Of course one can only comment based on the facts of the case presented.

If you actually bother to read the chain of posts you are commenting on, it might help us all in getting truly insightful responses from you, which I am almost certain we can expect out of you. You would have realized for instance that I haven't suggested anything as of yet, I only have objections to what you have suggested.

Your relationship with Gorillas shouldn't be of any pertinence to patent law, despite the checks.

I would be careful if I were you, you seem like a bright enough guy with a good background based on your website. You are on an internet forum, displaying your name and business for others to see and therefore form an image about your work.  Big daddy gorilla maybe on here too.

 

Thanks for your opinions - have a good weekend. Cheers.

[ChrisWhewell]

Eitherway, we are in a hypothetical with no information regarding what was actually desired to be claimed... 

Well, if you don't know what is desired to be claimed, that sure makes things easy.    What's the point of a hypo where you don't have a goal in mind ?   Its like doing a scrimmage in football where your team isn't told which goal line is theirs.   I suggest to run sideways into the crowd and look for someone who's paying attention !!    Have a good weekend.

[ChrisWhewell]

If you actually bother to read the chain of posts you are commenting on, it might help us all in getting truly insightful responses from you, which I am almost certain we can expect out of you. You would have realized for instance that I haven't suggested anything as of yet, I only have objections to what you have suggested.

By jingo, you're right.  I was reading from not the regular page, but a page screen window within the response frame and for whatever reason ascribed the writings of another to you.  My apologies.   I'm going to take a break from the forums.   

[ChrisWhewell]

If you actually bother to read the chain of posts you are commenting on, it might help us all in getting truly insightful responses from you.

Yes, but you should realize that I had bacon and eggs with iced coffee for breakfast this morning.

cheese with the bacon too ? 

Its my fault, and I'l like to apologize to everyone who read what I wrote and the results.  I did it in the midst of preparing a 20 pp OA reply, just to shift gears.

But I have been in that situation where the OP was, and found that by avoiding "first" and "third" language by using other words in front of the element and using other terms and appropriate description in the spec, that the problem went away.  My best to all.

[vman11]

By jingo, you're right.  I was reading from not the regular page, but a page screen window within the response frame and for whatever reason ascribed the writings of another to you.  My apologies.   I'm going to take a break from the forums.   

It's all good Chris. I hope you don't swing from one extreme to another. It's always good to hear another perspective. Hope to see you around.

[ChrisWhewell]

It's all good Chris. I hope you don't swing from one extreme to another. It's always good to hear another perspective. Hope to see you around.

I can assure you, that my extremism is constant.   I still don't appreciate that you, for whatever puny reason, started asking me irrelevant questions about functional language, when I never mentioned it per se, rather, only threw out there for the OP to consider using words other than "first", "third", etc.

If you're looking to argue, do it with the PTO or with an applicant, but I'll not be baited by your senseless drivelings.  And yes, I put my name to my messages, as I stand by my words.

Later.

[vman11]

Ok final post to you my man, Chris - Tarzan of the gorillas. You seem anything but constant, one post you apologize and the second post you're off sounding crazy again.

Again you have demonstrated that you have not bothered to read your own postings along with everybody else's. My irrelevant posting was quite relevant to your proposal of using 'buffer' and 'power' as opposed to first, second and so on.

I was trying to have a civil conversation with you as to why you would make the choice of doing so, hoping to further my own understanding of the law. To which you responded with a silly and irrelevant series of posts for which you have apologized already.

Geez, I guess if there are loony applicants, there's got to be a few loony practitioners out there too.

Over and out.

[ChrisWhewell]

   I just wanted to see if I changed tact, whether you'd do same, or ignore me.   Its raining here, the kids are all home from school so I'm not going to get any work done anyhow.  Internet forums unfortunately do not by their nature permit full communicative interaction, and some writings can be subject to different interpretations.  I've noticed on some internet forums where people post anonymously, that they get pretty wild at times, sometimes taking out their own frustrations.  It's probably got some therapeutic value for some.

I posted, as you correctly wrote, about "buffer" and "power", only to bring up the possibility of the use of terms other than "first", "third", along with defining what is meant by the terms one chooses to employ, in the spec.  The OP was having trouble with terms "first", "third" etc. and I merely suggested they consider doing something different.   Whats the issue with that, that makes you want to grill me on the use of "functional" language ?   It is possible to use my suggestion without using functional language in the claims, is it not ?  Adjectives aren't necessarily functional, only descriptive of a noun and that description can be whatever the lexicographer wants it to be.   Open up.... use your imagination.

I bet we could still be buddies, as I don't know you from one anonymous person or any other, and I don't have any ill will towards anyone on the planet, except the enemies of the united States, foreign and domestic.  I apologized because it is not my intention to upset anyone, and to the extent I did, my apology stands.   In communicating, I believe it is the person doing the talking's responsibility to see to it that the information they convey is conveyed in sufficient detail that his audience
receives the message.   I thought in the present instance that this would be the case, but by my own human imperfection now realize that my communication was not sufficiently complete for all to understand, hence the explanation above.  I'd just use words other than "first" and "third" - that's it !!   And functional language may or may not be appropriate depending on the case, the prior art, and the goals of the Applicant.  Cheers !!

 

[DogDayPM 9er9er9er]

I bet we could still be buddies, as I don't know you from one anonymous person or any other...

Just wait until you find out vman11 is your big brother, still picking on you after all these years... 

P.S. Your kids get "rain out" days out of school like snow days up north?  (Or is it teacher institute day and rain is unconnected to kids being home).

[Jonathan]

Snow days were the best, as a youngster. Except for having to shovel the driveway and delivering 60+ newspapers in 3+ feet of snow; I am not exaggerating that number (3 feet).. grew up in Buffalo, NY. But then I would go sledding, make snowballs and sometimes went ice skating. I think the parents got exasperated when there was a full week of snow days due to a blizzard, having the kids at home that long.The big one, apparently, was the Blizzard of '77. Being only about 7, then, all I really remember about it is a 2 story tall snow drift which I eagerly climbed up. And, I was out by myself, no adults around. Thus was that era. I also was allowed to walk to school, alone, during kindergarten and 1st grade.

[ChrisWhewell]

I bet we could still be buddies, as I don't know you from one anonymous person or any other...

Just wait until you find out vman11 is your big brother, still picking on you after all these years... 

P.S. Your kids get "rain out" days out of school like snow days up north?  (Or is it teacher institute day and rain is unconnected to kids being home).

Maybe my cousin... !!

No, its fall break both at the local schools and the college a son of mine is at.   I'm grateful they coincided.   It's true that if the temperature here in Cent. Tex. drops to 31 deg. F for more than about 5 minutes, they shut the schools down and lots of folk stay home from work.  JQ Public here isn't experienced with the solid form of water when mixed with motor sports.

[ChrisWhewell]

Snow days were the best, as a youngster. Except for having to shovel the driveway and delivering 60+ newspapers in 3+ feet of snow; I am not exaggerating that number (3 feet).. grew up in Buffalo, NY. But then I would go sledding, make snowballs and sometimes went ice skating. I think the parents got exasperated when there was a full week of snow days due to a blizzard, having the kids at home that long.The big one, apparently, was the Blizzard of '77. Being only about 7, then, all I really remember about it is a 2 story tall snow drift which I eagerly climbed up. And, I was out by myself, no adults around. Thus was that era. I also was allowed to walk to school, alone, during kindergarten and 1st grade.

I remember 77, I was in east Cleveland and we had 30 inches in the driveway and my parents were too cheap to buy a combustion engine driven impeller device, since they had me.  THAT s*cked - was a long driveway and the snow was the type that snowed, then slightly melted, and re-froze again - the kind you can't hardly stick your shovel in.  I remember once about back in 95 or 96 in another part of town, I had to shovel my way out of the driveway in the morning, about 2 ft + of snow, and then upon returning couldn't get in b/c there was another 2+ ft.  Good for the soul, I formerly thought.  Then I heard about some guys having heart attacks while shoveling, so I moved south and quit shoveling and started smoking, out of fairness to and  to keep the odds somewhat the same with mother nature who had already penciled an appointment in my book but left the date blank.  That 2-story story is cool, I don't think I've ever seen one of those excepting the icebergs on Lake Michigan.  OK, the part about the smoking was in jest.

[Jonathan]

There was a good hill nearby.. more a depression, it is called 'The Flats.' It is adjacent to a creek.

One part of the hill is rather sharply-angled and has lots of rocks going out of the ground. At the bottom, the land flattens out and 5 feet further it's basically another vertical drop down to the creek.

Me and friends referred to it as devil's slide.

We sled on it, despite it being pretty dangerous and we even rose the level of dangerousness.

The goal was to sled down the hill, get past the flat part and still have enough momentum to go down the next part of the hill and end up on the frozen creek.

When the ice once started to break, for one person, we decided that maybe this isn't the best idea. And this is all after receiving education that basically said 'Do not venture onto a frozen lake or river.'

[ChrisWhewell]

sounds like a blast  !!    Wish I were there for a few runs.  There's a huge hill behind Willoughby court house.  Saturdays it would be packed with people.  About a 400 foot run at a steep angle with a few moguls.  That hill was a fast one.   After Willoughby hill I remember thinking later what a waste of money the tobaggon chutes in strongsville were.  but it sounds like your hill adds that beneficial element of danger.  what part of the creek was it at ?