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[swc]

Does anyone have any experience/opinions on these?  I just graduated from law school, and I've been offered a position at a virtual IP boutique.  Essentially, the firm has a small office in Cali where the main attorney works.  He emails out prosecution work to a handful of attorneys across the country, with all the work and correspondence performed remotely by them.  Upon completion, the attorneys email the work back to the Cali office.  Payment is wired to the attorneys.  Basically, there is no in-person contact amongst the attorneys...everything is done remotely.  The firm has a few Fortune 500 companies as clients, so I think there's good, steady work coming in. 

Anyways, my main concern is how working at a virtual firm will be viewed by potential employers if I choose to lateral out in a few years.  Will there be any stigma associated with having that experience on my resume?  Ultimately, will I be viewed differently than those who work at more "conventional" firms?  I'm hoping that as long as I get enough patent applications/OAs under my belt (esp for major companies), then it won't be much of a concern...

Thoughts?

[Wiscagent]

If you need money and you don't have another job offer, then take the job!  If it doesn't work out, you can quit.

Don't waste time worrying about a "career plan".  Ask just about anyone over age 50 these questions:
 - Did you have a career plan?  -  Most will answer no.
 - If you had a career plan, did it work out the way you planned?  -  Most will answer no.

There is nothing stopping you from continuing to look for another job while you're doing this virtual thing.

[swc]

If you need money and you don't have another job offer, then take the job!  If it doesn't work out, you can quit.

Don't waste time worrying about a "career plan".  Ask just about anyone over age 50 these questions:
 - Did you have a career plan?  -  Most will answer no.
 - If you had a career plan, did it work out the way you planned?  -  Most will answer no.

There is nothing stopping you from continuing to look for another job while you're doing this virtual thing.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.  The thing is that I recently received an offer from a "conventional" IP boutique that only does patent litigation.  I have no interest in being a litigator.  My goal is to ultimately end up at a nice IP boutique where I can do good, interesting prosecution work. 

The question is which of the two options will help me reach that goal faster:  the conventional/litigation firm or the virtual/prosecution firm? 

[UVAgal4]

Interesting.  That would be unthinkable here in Europe. Mostly the clients who would be suspicious.

Well, we have one partner who telecommutes most of the time and comes to the office only one week per month or so, but there is an actual office with administrative assistants and accountants and so forth.

Anyway, I think a virtual firm would be okay for someone with experience and knows what they are doing, but I don't see how a newbie could learn the ropes just by emails back and forth and no face time with the senior attorney.

[swc]

Interesting.  That would be unthinkable here in Europe. Mostly the clients who would be suspicious.

Well, we have one partner who telecommutes most of the time and comes to the office only one week per month or so, but there is an actual office with administrative assistants and accountants and so forth.

Anyway, I think a virtual firm would be okay for someone with experience and knows what they are doing, but I don't see how a newbie could learn the ropes just by emails back and forth and no face time with the senior attorney.

Out of curiosity, why is feedback via email that much worse?  As long as there isn't much of a delay in the main attorney getting back to me, couldn't I still "learn the ropes?"  It may take a bit longer, but I didn't think that would be a problem...?

[MYK]

The feedback on specific questions wouldn't likely be all that much worse, but there's a lot to be said for being able to bounce questions off a half-dozen different people, each with different areas and levels of expertise, and also to being asked questions from time to time.  Also, IMHO, a virtual firm would tend to be more unstable since it would be easier to get rid of people the managing partners have never met when work slows, and to add random new people whenever necessary.  Don't underestimate the importance of social ties among the people you work with!

I'd avoid the virtual for a first job, unless other considerations, such as being able to live in a remote location, would be of great benefit to you.

[swc]

The feedback on specific questions wouldn't likely be all that much worse, but there's a lot to be said for being able to bounce questions off a half-dozen different people, each with different areas and levels of expertise, and also to being asked questions from time to time.  Also, IMHO, a virtual firm would tend to be more unstable since it would be easier to get rid of people the managing partners have never met when work slows, and to add random new people whenever necessary.  Don't underestimate the importance of social ties among the people you work with!

I'd avoid the virtual for a first job, unless other considerations, such as being able to live in a remote location, would be of great benefit to you.

Yeah, ideally I'd like to work at a place as you described, but that's not really an option for me now.  The goal is to land at one of those places in a few years.

I've decided to go with the virtual law firm.  IMO, the best thing for me is to get as much prosecution experience as possible, regardless of how it is obtained.  The hope is that I'll be fairly marketable in a few years with a decent number of applications and ROAs under my belt. 

[Retarius]

I worked at a virtual firm the past 2 years, and I really recommend it if you are interested in patent prosecution. I disagree with some of the others who feel face time is required.  There were many times when I had fairly long calls with the other attorneys to discuss matters I was prosecuting - a bluetooth headset (hands free) and cell phone were a good start, but voice over IP (Skype, for example) is a lot less expensive if you want to do this for more than a single job.  If you are efficient, it can work as well as face to face (Ive done both). I left the v-firm in March when work started drying up, but had enough going on by then that I was able to seamlessly transition to my own thing. I do think there is a benefit of working face-to-face with inventors, but if you are local to them you can still work remotely most of the time. Good luck!

retarius

[patentsusa]

If there is a possibility you might end up in house at some point, some companies are impressed by experience at large law firms, for some reason.

I'd say that the quality of the firm's clients is a more important factor than whether it is virtual or traditional.  If they are doing work mostly for the large companies that lowball the fees, there is only so much they can pay you.  Large companies are often the worst clients.  The mid size companies that don't have in-house counsel usually are most satisfying to work for because they actually need and value advice, you are not just doing their overflow work.  The largest companies tend to be more interested in numbers than quality. 

For example, if they are doing 6k fixed fee patent applications for some large company that is more interested in numbers than quality, that limits what they can pay you.  If they pay 50% (which is very generous), the most you could make is 3k per patent application.  If they have good small clients that pay hourly or pay a higher fixed fee, the amount the firm can pay you is much higher.  It doesn't matter what compensation plan they have if they don't have good clients.  Keep in mind that some of the big names make the worst clients.  I would ask all potential employers (assuming you have options) what their worst client pays per patent application.  Then consider whether you really want to be in a firm willing to take on low paying work.

Another question is whether the virtual firm offers medical benefits, and, if not, if you can get insurance somewhere else.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when work gets tight, people who are present and on-sight are harder to ignore than people who are on the other end of the country.  I would personally think virtual is better suited for more experienced people.  If I were starting out all over again, I'd probably want to be located in Silicon Valley or Austin to benefit from good networking.  If you end up in a city with a great quality of life (something virtual allows) but no alternatives than your virtual firm, it may be harder to jump ship if the work dries up.

Just some thoughts.  Best of luck with your decision.

[physicsnerd]

I think I agree with the above post that suggests that you may miss out on some learning.  I don't think much would be lost on specific feedback in your applications and etc., but you would miss out on the ability to stand up walk down the hall and ask a quick question.  You'd also miss out on the absorption of patent law, which you get from just picking things up.  I think it would be something that would be fine for a seasoned attorney though.  I also think it would be fine for you now.  But I would be looking for another patent prosecution job ASAP.  As far as experience, the virtual firm idea may just show that you're confident and not afraid to rely on yourself.  You next employer may be impressed by the idea.  If you don't want to do patent litigation then don't.  Do the virtual firm and look for your next job.  I would just try to learn as much as you can via other venues.

[ababab]

Exciting that you took the plunge!  How's it working out for you?

Patent pros. is more of a "solo" line of work anyway, most of the time, even if you happen to share an office and letterhead with dozens of others managing their own "solo" practices.  One of the biggest disadvantages to starting alone, as others have noted, is the lack of an educational "water cooler chat" environment.  But hard work and focus can help overcome that.

Good luck!

[physicsnerd]

SWC,

I am curious as to how you've been doing with the virtual firm.  It looks like its been about a month since you posted you'd be taking the virtual firm position and was wondering how it was going so far.

[swc]

Sorry, there's not much to report as of yet.  I will begin my work with the virtual firm in September, so I'm enjoying my free time until then.   

After I get a month or two under my belt, I will try to post my thoughts on the experience.  Thank you all for the helpful advice and words of encouragement.   

[physicsnerd]

Sounds great. Enjoy your vacation and I look forward to hearing about the virtual firm.

[decom]

Does any know of virtual law firms that are hiring?  This no-geo boundary structure sounds like a great model and I want to find out about the possibilities.  Thanks for the input.