Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dood]

Background: I will be going to GWU in the fall, focusing in on patent law.  I have a B.S. in Mech Engr + 2 years of work experience in manufacturing and design of electrical components.  I'm really not sure what I want to do with my life.  I am studying for the patent bar now and will take it before I start law school. 

Issue: I wish I had super ambitions, but in all honesty, right now I just want to make as much money as possible and then retire early.  Things could change....but for now, my primary goal is to make as much money as possible in the shortest amount of time, and my secondary goal is to leave doors open so if I do decide to something significant with my life, I can.

What should I do?  I'm thinking patent litigation because I am still fundamentally a litigator so if I want to cross over to corporate law, in-house, I might be able to.  And who knows, maybe the skills I learn as a litigator will help me start my own business or maybe even go into politics.  Versus patent prosecution, it seems like I will be shoehorned, and there is zero chance of crossing over to other areas of the law.  Is the money the same in both?  Seems like 1st year, 2nd year, etc, in either field make the same anyways.

[NRLMint]

If you want to be a litigator, you might as well go for the Federal Prosecutor route. Get your debating, case preparation, and public speaking skills honed out during your early years and know the trade of litigation in general.

You'll be set for the rest of your life then. 

[petethebody]

relax man.  you actually don't need to go through any of this exercise right now.  just focus on your first year courses.  You won't get a firm gig during your 1L summer anymore because of the economy, especially not from GW (sorry man, it's a good school, just not good enough in this economy).  So, relax until august, then work really hard.  You really only have to worry about making above 60k a year if you are in the top third.  If you're not in the top third, your chances of large short term rewards will be laughable.  Seriously, go to law school to be a lawyer, not rich. 

You are not a unique snowflake; a law degree is not a license to print money; and your engineering degree does not even make it more likely you will succeed in law school.  I've seen engineers succeed and I've seen engineers fail at law school.  An engineer at law school is not some rare find anymore - don't expect people to throw money at you because you have a bachelors and 2 years doing benchmarks.

btw, if you wanted to make shitloads of money in law, you are 2 years too late.  If you want to take out 160k in debt, work 60 hour weeks at 60k for 2 years, then maybe have a shot at 80 hour weeks for 140k, welcome to the suck.

I hope I've made you pissed off.  Because you need to be hungry to do well in law school.  The entitlement train is long gone, time to earn your money.  If you want it bad enough you'll get it.  Otherwise, the world doesn't need another mediocre "fall-back" lawyer. 

[Sixes]

relax man.  you actually don't need to go through any of this exercise right now.  just focus on your first year courses.  You won't get a firm gig during your 1L summer anymore because of the economy, especially not from GW (sorry man, it's a good school, just not good enough in this economy).  So, relax until august, then work really hard.  You really only have to worry about making above 60k a year if you are in the top third.  If you're not in the top third, your chances of large short term rewards will be laughable.  Seriously, go to law school to be a lawyer, not rich. 

You are not a unique snowflake; a law degree is not a license to print money; and your engineering degree does not even make it more likely you will succeed in law school.  I've seen engineers succeed and I've seen engineers fail at law school.  An engineer at law school is not some rare find anymore - don't expect people to throw money at you because you have a bachelors and 2 years doing benchmarks.

btw, if you wanted to make shitloads of money in law, you are 2 years too late.  If you want to take out 160k in debt, work 60 hour weeks at 60k for 2 years, then maybe have a shot at 80 hour weeks for 140k, welcome to the suck.

I hope I've made you pissed off.  Because you need to be hungry to do well in law school.  The entitlement train is long gone, time to earn your money.  If you want it bad enough you'll get it.  Otherwise, the world doesn't need another mediocre "fall-back" lawyer. 

Great post...my wife (the family attorney working in public interest law) wholeheartedly agrees with you.

[dood]

So if I am making a little under 100K right now (with only my BSME), I should just forget about law school?

[petethebody]

So if I am making a little under 100K right now (with only my BSME), I should just forget about law school?

Probably, unless you want to be a lawyer or are getting a BIG scholarship.  If you are not a flame and really do only want money you should know you are not likely to find it in law.  It's hard to get a firm job for the foreseeable future, and even then, they are short term gigs (avg 4 years) unless you can bring in the business to make partner.  Otherwise, you'll probably end up at a smaller firm, going in house or going solo and making anywhere from 100k to 150k a year.

I guess you could go to law school for a year and see how you end up (top 25% if you want the money).  Provided the debt from that one year wasn't too bad, it might be worth while to give it a try.  That is also assuming that if you leave your job and do not meet your target that you can still go back.

If your job has a glass ceiling or you are not expecting to stay there forever, why aren't you thinking about B school?  It's 2 years, costs less and gives you the pedigree to do more.

But don't just take some anonymous poster's word.  Look at these:

Employment Trends for Law School Grads, NAT’L L.J., Apr. 14, 2008, at 28, available at http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf (in boom times, only the top quarter of GW got gigs that paid 160k)

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR LAW PLACEMENT, ANOTHER PICTURE IS WORTH 1000 WORDS, July 2008, http://www.nalp.org/anotherpicture?s=another%20picture

Julie Kay, Moonlighting Lawyers Tackle Their School Debt, NAT’L L.J., Sept. 25, 2008, http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter/lawArticleCareerCenter.jsp?id=1202424764260

Molly McDonough, New Law Grads Urged to Have Backup Plans, ABAJournal.com, Oct. 20, 2008, http://abajournal.com/news/new_law_grads_urged_to_have_backup_plans

Leigh Jones, Summer Associate Hiring for 2008 Wilts, NAT’L L.J., Mar. 24, 2008, http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1206357948571 

Lisa van der Pool, Law firms cut back summer associate hires, BOSTON BUS. J., June 13, 2008, at 38, available at http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2008/06/16/story3.html

[imbored]

Wow dude, bitter much?

[petethebody]

Wow dude, bitter much?

Yes and no.  Law school actually worked out really well for me.  It's just more than half of my T20 classmates still do not have jobs.  Moreover, most people don't know how the practice of law really works and have completely unrealistic expectations.  That makes me annoyed

[dood]

Probably, unless you want to be a lawyer or are getting a BIG scholarship.  If you are not a flame and really do only want money you should know you are not likely to find it in law. 

I guess you could go to law school for a year and see how you end up (top 25% if you want the money).  Provided the debt from that one year wasn't too bad, it might be worth while to give it a try.  That is also assuming that if you leave your job and do not meet your target that you can still go back.

If your job has a glass ceiling or you are not expecting to stay there forever, why aren't you thinking about B school?  It's 2 years, costs less and gives you the pedigree to do more.

It's hard to explain - I get these moments where I think being a lawyer is the greatest idea ever, and then I start doubting myself.  I won't be able to go back to exactly what I am doing.  But I'm a decent engineer overall, plus I interview really well so I would imagine I would be able to find at least a mid level ($50k-70K) engineering position if I dropped out of law school after 1L. 

Glass ceiling is only part of the problem with my job - I work for a division of GE that is conservative in promotions, i.e. based on years with company rather than performance.  The guys who had been there for 10-15 years only made slightly more than I (the top performance based raise every year was 6%, and frozen at 0% as of right now).  The bigger issue was how insignificant I felt doing my job.  Even in my role as a product manager, I rarely get to make the kind of changes that really mattered.  Which leads to why I decided not to go to B-School.  The guys with their MBAs are still only in middle-management, maybe topping out at $200K after 20 years, and still not adding significant value (at least in my opinion).

I imagine one day I will own my own business, perhaps get into politics (even on a small local level).  I really think law will keep both these options open.  But for right now, I just need to know how to maximize my investment.  In terms of money and time.  So let me re-phrase my original question.  Considering my experience (BSME) and law school (GWU), assuming I will finish top 1/3, what legal specialization should I go into in order to:
a) maximize monetary return
b) maximize the number of potential career paths

?

Thanks.  Appreciate the advice.  I've talked to some family friends who are patent lawyers, but hiding behind internet anonymity helps in conveying the truth.

[igbojuju]

OP I'm slightly in your shoes. BSEE heading to state T1 in fall. Time to sink or swim I guess....

[Aviator Lawyer]

So did you ever get a 1L summer position in 2010?

[Physgeek]

So if I am making a little under 100K right now (with only my BSME), I should just forget about law school?

Expletive! We should take a poll of this board to see how many people WISH they were making close to "under 100k." You should consider yourself VERY fortunate right now.

How old are you? BS + 2 years of experience? So 25 or 26? Making that much money? I assume you are quitting your job and going full-time, not keeping your job and going part time.

Going to law school is a step in the wrong direction if all you care about is money. Three years of full-time school gives you -$300k or so of lost income, plus the cost of law school. Are you taking out loans? You'll likely have $100k+ in loans when you get out. That's insane.

Side note: If you have been making that much money for the past 2 years, and do not have a ton of money saved up, i.e., fully funded 401(k) and Roth IRA, plus lots of cash savings, then you are not mentally prepared to think about retiring early.

If you are keeping your job and going to law school part-time because you "don't know what to do with your life," that is fine. Because you can go through your first year, decide whether you like it or hate it, and proceed from there. Minimal damage as long as you still have a job.

I'm 31, and I only just decided what I want to do with my life about 4 months ago. Make sure that you are willing to live with your decision.

Physgeek
If I sound bitter, it is because I am unemployed. I hope that dood knows how good he has it right now.