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Author Topic: Can I start now?  (Read 2532 times)

Bruce Tackett

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Can I start now?
« on: 12-01-04 at 08:25 pm »

I have a document with pictures and descriptions of my invention signed by two witnesses and notarized. I have a working prototype of my invention. I have the results of a search conducted by a Patent Searcher, and my invention is unique.

Can I now begin marketing it? Can I say that it is patent pending while I go through the next step in obtaining a patent? While I begin the process of applying for a patent, am I still protected?
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JimIvey

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #1 on: 12-01-04 at 09:04 pm »

You can't say "patent pending" until you've actually filed an application for a patent.

Whether filing the application "protects" you depends on what you mean by "protect".  

Does filing an application give you rights that you can enforce against others?  No.

Can you market, display, sell, and show off your invention without jeopardizing your pending patent application?  Yes.

Can you market, display, sell, and show off your invention without a pending application and still avoid jeopardizing your rights to patents later?  No.

So, having a patent application on file gives you some protection, but not as much as many people think.

Regards.
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James D. Ivey
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Friends don't let friends file provisional patent applications.

Bruce Tackett

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #2 on: 12-01-04 at 09:24 pm »

Thank you, James.

Are you a patent attorney?
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JimIvey

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #3 on: 12-02-04 at 12:09 am »

You're welcome.  Yes.  You can read about what I do at the link in my signature below.

Regards.
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James D. Ivey
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Bruce Tackett

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #4 on: 12-02-04 at 08:44 am »

ok. Thanks again. I sort of realized that my being legally protected at this point was wishful.

So, I now have two questions....................

1. At this point I now have a working model and the results of a search. It would seem to me that the next step would be to write a patent. I believe I can write a patent myself using the written patents I recieved from the search as a guide. I envision scanning photographs of my invention into a word document, pointing to each component of my invention, and assigning a number to each of those components to be used in a list of materials. Am I right in assuming this to be my next step and will writing the patent as I have described be acceptable?

2. I suspect that at some point I will have to hire a patent attorney. Would I be correct in assuming that the more I do myself, such as having a search conducted and writing my own patent, the less an attorney's fee would be for such work that would remain for him to do?

I would greatly appreciate any input here.
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JimIvey

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #5 on: 12-03-04 at 10:34 am »

Quote
1. At this point I now have a working model and the results of a search. It would seem to me that the next step would be to write a patent. I believe I can write a patent myself using the written patents I recieved from the search as a guide. I envision scanning photographs of my invention into a word document, pointing to each component of my invention, and assigning a number to each of those components to be used in a list of materials. Am I right in assuming this to be my next step and will writing the patent as I have described be acceptable?

Acceptable in what sense?  Will the patent office accept it as an application entitled to pending status?  Yes.  Will it eventually be acceptable as an issued patent?  Maybe.  Will it result in a patent which is enforceable and generate revenue?  Possibly, but unlikely.

Consider that you may eventually be required to substitute line drawings for your photographs.  Photographs can be acceptable for issued patents (i.e., as "formal" drawings), but there are others with more figure drafting experience than I have.  If you have to include line drawings, you may be required to draw all features of the photograph (or hire someone to do it for you).  That can be expensive down the road.

Here's what I'd do (without any computer drawing skills).  I'd use tracing paper over the photos to draw the figures by hand in pencil.  Then, make a clean photocopy for filing in the patent office.  It will effectively be a nice "ink" drawing.  

Quote
2. I suspect that at some point I will have to hire a patent attorney. Would I be correct in assuming that the more I do myself, such as having a search conducted and writing my own patent, the less an attorney's fee would be for such work that would remain for him to do?

Short term, it may be cheaper.  Long term, it will likely be more expensive.  It often takes more attorney time to fix a home-grown patent application than to write one entirely.  And, due to acts of publication (uses, disclosures, offers to sell, etc.), many of the defects of a home-grown patent application are simply not fixable.

Remember, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  That's why patents (application through issuance) typically cost 5 figures and litigation of the same patent typically costs 7 figures.

The important thing to consider is exactly how crucial is a patent to your business model.  If your business goes nowhere without the patent, it's worthwhile making sure it's done right.  It's also worthwhile doing a search (which you appear to have done).  If your business will be helped a little with a patent but will do fine without it, it may be fine to write it yourself.  

Now, you probably have the same problem every new inventor has: great idea, no patent, no money.  The solution is convincing an investor that your idea is worthwhile and a good investment.  Be careful what you tell the investor without an NDA (non-disclosure agreement); it could affect your patent rights.

Sooner or later, you're going to have to convince someone else to believe in your idea -- an investor, a licensee, and eventually the marketplace.

Good luck.
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James D. Ivey
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Bruce Tackett

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #6 on: 12-03-04 at 12:53 pm »

Wow, Jim! You are a wealth of information! I certainly do appreciate your help.

Now I'm a little confused, here...........

"If your business will be helped a little with a patent but will do fine without it, it may be fine to write it yourself."

Helped a little bit by a patent? Isn't the idea of having a patent so that someone else can't start producing the same item?  And I'm not sure what you mean by, it would be fine to write a patent myself if my business would do fine without a patent. Why would I write a patent if I intend not to get a patent?
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Ladislao_Warcok

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #7 on: 12-03-04 at 02:37 pm »

Quote
"If your business will be helped a little with a patent but will do fine without it, it may be fine to write it yourself."


There is no such thing as a mid term patent, either your patent protects your invention or it does not.  I believe what  Mr. Ivey tried to explain to you is that 99% of patent appliactions drafted by their own inventors are useless in a case of infringement, and thats where you need a good patent. Besides if you happen to bump into some big corporation which is interested in your invention and maybe licensing your patent, they will have their own patent experts to analyze it and they will tell the big corporation that such patent is useless. So think abou it.
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Bruce Tackett

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #8 on: 12-03-04 at 07:44 pm »

oh.
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JSonnabend

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #9 on: 12-06-04 at 07:24 am »

Quote
The important thing to consider is exactly how crucial is a patent to your business model.

I just wanted to echo this point.  This is some of the most important advice a patent attorney can give a client.  Stated differently, one shouldn't believe that getting a patent is some sort of holy grail, or that once one receives a patent, everything else takes care of itself somehow.  Instead, a patent is merely another business tool at one's disposal, and product commercialization still needs to be seriously addressed.

Regarding the "mid term patent" issue, I'm not sure where that arose, but Ladislao_Warcok's post is completely off base as I understand it.  A patent may protect aspects of your product without covering the product as a whole.  Indeed, most commercial patents, I believe, do just that.  Thus, depending on what aspects of your product the patent covers, it may be of great commercial value, no commercial value, or anything inbetween.

- Jeff
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SonnabendLaw
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JSonnabend@SonnabendLaw.com

JimIvey

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #10 on: 12-06-04 at 05:43 pm »

Quote
"If your business will be helped a little with a patent but will do fine without it, it may be fine to write it yourself."

Helped a little bit by a patent? Isn't the idea of having a patent so that someone else can't start producing the same item?  And I'm not sure what you mean by, it would be fine to write a patent myself if my business would do fine without a patent. Why would I write a patent if I intend not to get a patent?


Thanks, Jeff, for helping clarify this point.  There are many approaches to using patents to help a business.  They range from just getting a patent and hoping someone infringes some day to simply trying to protect an idea you're going to make & sell yourself anyway in your own business.  And, there are many variations in between.

The way I tend to say it is that patents are most often essential but almost never sufficient.  Stated another way, patents are just one piece of the puzzle in the effort to profit from a clever idea.

So, what you have to ask yourself is, just how important is the patent to you in your particular plan to profit from your clever idea?  

For some people, they won't even try to commercialize the idea without a patent.  In that case, don't even attempt to protect it yourself without some professional help.  The help can range from just the essentials to doing everything for you.  Or, if you do write it yourself, take as much care in doing so as that guy that gave himself a root-canal using a power drill, a mirror and some epoxy.  Be very very careful.

For other people, they say they'll bring their idea to market no matter what it takes -- patent or no patent.  For what it's worth, those people seem to perservere and generally "make it" one way or another -- if not this idea, then the next one.  If you're one of those, then it's less crucial that this particular patent is done right and actually results in enforceable rights.  Then, you might try writing it yourself.  However, most people of this type really appreciate the value added in having professional help.

I hope that clarifies.
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James D. Ivey
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Ladislao_Warcok

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #11 on: 12-07-04 at 07:04 am »

Quote
Regarding the "mid term patent" issue, I'm not sure where that arose, but Ladislao_Warcok's post is completely off base as I understand it.  A patent may protect aspects of your product without covering the product as a whole.  Indeed, most commercial patents, I believe, do just that.  Thus, depending on what aspects of your product the patent covers, it may be of great commercial value, no commercial value, or anything inbetween.- Jeff

Maybe the expression "mid term patent" was not very well applied. But my point of view is that from experience every time an inventor tries to start a case of infringement, once we get to the patent drafted by him, we see that his invention and what really is protected in his patent have little in common. Therefore there is nothing or lil that can be done but to let the infringer get away with that. I've seen it happen not only with self inventors but also with small entities.
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Patent_Writer

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #12 on: 12-12-04 at 08:39 pm »

I believe you can use the phrase "Patent Pending" after filing a provisional, too.  Please correct me if this is wrong.  

www.patentsavers.com
« Last Edit: 12-12-04 at 08:40 pm by Patent_Writer »
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Rafe

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #13 on: 08-16-05 at 09:58 am »

Are you Bruce Tackett formerly of San Francisco?
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gregm170

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Re: Can I start now?
« Reply #14 on: 09-18-05 at 01:56 am »

I believe you can use the phrase "Patent Pending" after filing a provisional, too.  Please correct me if this is wrong.  

Greg L. Martinez
solidstateip
www.solidstateip.com
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