Patent Bar Eligibility Questions - Additional Courses

[DonQuixote]

I am a current law student who is very seriously considering pursuing a future as a patent attorney.  I have reviewed all of the information I could find regarding patent bar eligibility, including these forums and the General Requirements Bulletin put out by the USPTO.

Although my undergraduate major does not fall into the required categories, I have taken a number  of chemistry and biology courses.  (Degree:  B.S., Psychology/Telecommunication).  Specifically, I have 6 credit hours of chemistry and 5 hours of biology that would likely best be categorized under Category B, Option 2 of the General Requirements Bulletin.

The reason I decided to post my questions here is because my primary question is who should I contact in order to determine what additional classes I would need to take in order to qualify to take the exam?
 - Will the Office of Enrollment and Discipline answer specific questions regarding what additional classes I need to take?
- Is there another entity that I may contact that could answer my questions?
- Or, do I have to fill out the application for the exam (and pay the fee), despite knowing that I have not met the requirements.
- Will filing an application tell me the specific reasons why I was ineligible to take the exam?
- Is there any danger in applying and being denied entry?

Questions Specific to Category B:
 
- What does sequential mean in this context?  “8 semester hours in chemistry must be obtained in 2 sequential courses, each course including a lab”
- If I currently have 6 hours of chemistry, will an additional 2 be considered sequential, or would I have to retake all 8 closer in time to one another?

- Also, what does “Only courses for science or engineering majors will be accepted” mean?
- Am I considered a science major because I have a B.S.?


Essentially, I need to know whether or not the time commitment to take additional courses is possible or worth the effort. 

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read this.

Please let me know if you have any insights into any of these questions.

Thanks.

[freepatentbar]

I would apply, pay the non-refundable fee and pay the exam fee (refundable) and get an official statement of what you're deficient in.

I had the same issue and did the same thing.  That being said, OED would NOT tell me if the physics course I lacked would be accepted if I took at a community college.  I ended up taking the class at the CC and it was ultimately accepted. 

I don't know on your Cat B question with chemistry.  Again, apply.  See what OED says. 

The "only for science or engineering majors" requirement means you can't take two stellar astronomy classes back to back and have those count as 8 credits of sequential physics because stellar astro. wouldn't apply toward a physics degree. 

[dablueman]

Questions Specific to Category B:
 
- What does sequential mean in this context?  “8 semester hours in chemistry must be obtained in 2 sequential courses, each course including a lab”
- If I currently have 6 hours of chemistry, will an additional 2 be considered sequential, or would I have to retake all 8 closer in time to one another?

- Also, what does “Only courses for science or engineering majors will be accepted” mean?
- Am I considered a science major because I have a B.S.?

1) Sequential means sequential, you must have taken a 4 hours chemistry or physics class in the fall semester, followed by a 4 hour chemistry or physics class in the spring semester. Each of the courses must have included lab work. Most universities call this Chemistry I and II or Physics I and II.

2) No, an additional 2 hours won't be considered sequential and if it was a 3 hour course it likely doesn't qualify for reasons explained below for your next question.

3) "Only courses for science majors will be accepted" means exactly that. Most colleges offer non-majors chemistry/biology/physics versions of the more rigorous classes meant for true science majors. These non-major's courses are typically 3 hours rather than 4 and may or may not include a lab. They're tailored to meet the general education requirements and are not meant for the actual chemistry or physics majors.

4) No,  you're not considered a science major just because you have a B.S., science major in this context refers to the specific class or classes.

General Comment: The Category B requirements are pretty straight forward, and if it really was that hard for you to parse then perhaps patent law isn't the field you should be pursuing? If I were you I wouldn't waste the money applying because the patent office will reject your application. Besides, bankruptcy is in much more demand right now.

[Isaac]

Also, what does “Only courses for science or engineering majors will be accepted” mean?

Generally this means the courses that are taken by engineers and hard science majors rather than the "for poets" versions of physics that are provided for English and non-tech majors.  If the coursework would not have been acceptable at your university for someone majoring in a Category A subject, most likely it isn't going to meet OEDs requirements.

Am I considered a science major because I have a B.S.?

Nope.  You can get a BS degree in history or political science.

[freepatentbar]

Don, can you go under Cat C?  Will your state let you sit for the FE Exam?

[DonQuixote]

Thank you for your replies everyone.

freepatentbar:

I am not eligible to take the FE Exam.

I plan to take your advice, and go ahead and apply with the OED, following a couple of summer science classes.  I will still be ineligible for the bar, but hopefully the OED will give me sufficient information to enable me to take the remaining classes.  Are there any disadvantages to applying and being rejected?

Generally:

After looking over my transcripts, I in fact have 9 hours of "science major" chemistry.  However, they are not in the format that the category B requirements seem to suggest.  Instead of the chemistry at my university being contained in two 4 hour courses, it is instead done with four 3 hour courses (2 lecture, 2 lab).  These courses are called General College Chemistry I and II & General Chemistry Lab I & II.  There are no 4 hour chemistry course options.  I have taken two lectures and 1 lab (9 hours).

My misunderstanding with "sequential" was probably based on this discrepancy.  I assumed that it meant sequential in course number, not necessarily temporally.  (I don't think that my failure to parse this ambiguous language should discourage me).

I can't imagine that the OED would require me to retake the lecture portion of of a chemistry lab in order for it to be considered sequential.  However, I will apply and let them tell me.

It would seem, based on the category B requirements that I would still need to take the General Chemistry Lab II, plus additional biology courses.  Would it be useful to ask them specific questions in the application?  In what form are their responses (denials)?

Thank you again.
You have been most helpful.

[dablueman]

Call the uspto office at 571-272-4097 and they should answer your questions about the application. I still think that since you don't have a science or enginnering background it is pointless to pursue this because most firms won't consider you, but to each there own, and good luck.

[freepatentbar]

dablue, have you gotten real answers out of OED over the phone.  I agree they are nice but very noncommital when it comes to answering specific questions.  They always told me to write...

[coyote]

Does anybody know whether a year of General Chem with a lab (not chemistry for non-science majors) will count toward the 30 units of chemistry "for chemistry majors" required under Category C?  It's certainly required of all chem majors.

[jch2011]

I took 4 hours of general chemistry in college and now I'm currently in law school.  Can I just take the remaining 4 hours of general chemistry at a community college sometime during law school in order to qualify for the patent bar exam? 

Also, am I limited to taking the second half of general chemistry?  Can I instead take the first semester of organic chemistry?  At my college, semester-one of general chemistry was a prerequisite to taking semester-one of organic chemistry. 

Thanks in advance for answering my question.

   

[dablueman]

I took 4 hours of general chemistry in college and now I'm currently in law school.  Can I just take the remaining 4 hours of general chemistry at a community college sometime during law school in order to qualify for the patent bar exam? 

Also, am I limited to taking the second half of general chemistry?  Can I instead take the first semester of organic chemistry?  At my college, semester-one of general chemistry was a prerequisite to taking semester-one of organic chemistry. 

Thanks in advance for answering my question.

   

The bulletin says that the science courses must be in consecutive semesters (i.e. first one in fall, second in spring) and the courses must be the for-majors version of chemistry or physics.

[jkresh]

Hi,

I have a somewhat similar question and while I realize no one hear can say anything definitive on the matter I would like your opinion before I send stuff to OED.
I have a computer science degree (ba and ma) from a university whose cs department is not accredited, so I would have to get in under category B.

I took organic chemistry 1 and 2, which would count but I did not take the lab. I also have a physics class with lab (though not the second semester of it), a graduate level biochemistry class, and additional courses in biology. (I effectively setup a bioinformatics courseload though my official degree was COSI).

In addition, I was allowed to take organic chem because my university counted AP chemistry (4 or 5) as freshman chem 1 or 2 with lab (prerequisites for ochem), my transcript just shows 8 credits from AP chem (and 8 from physics) but in the handbook it shows equivalent courses and the chem courses listed as equivalent would fulfill the requirement, while physics would not as they were not for engineering majors. 

What do you think the odds are that the above would fulfill the category B requirements?