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(Message started by: lemonbar on Oct 3rd, 2007, 9:25pm)

Title: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by lemonbar on Oct 3rd, 2007, 9:25pm
Actual Product States:  

"Internationl Patent Number: PCT/IT200a/00bbb U.S. Patent: Pending"


WIPO PCT Application shows:

Internationl Publication Number: WO 200c/0ddddd A1

International Publication Date: 02.09.200e

International Filing Date: 04.21.200f

Designated State: (too many to list) around 80+ in one section and around 60+ in the next section

I left out the actual number and replaced them with sequential alphbet a, b, c, d, e, f

Questions:

1 - This is a document that is the application document?

2 - Since it was 'published' does that mean  they did get the patent? What infringement rights in 'IT' or the US did they receive from getting this problished?

3 - Are all of those states listed (US included) countries that they now have protection from infringment in due to this publication?

4 - Is there some sort of Round 1 and Round 2 process that they still have to go through to get something? If all of those states are listed then what does that cost for them to go through each round?

5 - Since they listed the US as one of their states what can you tell me about what step of the process they are in to get their US patent?

6 - They listed  US Patent Pending, did get the right to list that because the WIPO PCT published? Or did they have to formally file a US Patent application/provisonal, etc to be able to list that on their product?

7 - Using that info above or the info in the document how can I get the US application or see how or when their document was filed/started etc?

8 - Using that info how can I find out when they get the actual granted patent if they do?

Title: Re: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by patent_type on Oct 4th, 2007, 6:45am
1.  Yes, this is the application document.  The PCT number is the application number.  The WO number is the publication number.

2.  No.  No patent rights are associated with the PCT publication.

3.  No.  Those are states/countries into which they can file national patent applications to puruse patents in each of those countries if they want to if they file the national applications within a certain time period (generally 30 months from the priority date (sometimes the same as the international filing date) of the PCT application).  No patent is granted from the PCT application--they must file in each specific country (or region for the four regional authorities).

4.  See #3.  Cost varies widely per country and if you are talking about cost of filing or cost through grant of patent or cost through lifetime of application and patent until expiration of patent.

5.  Cain't say nothing.  But you can do a search in the public area of the U.S. PTO website to find out if it has been filed here.  You can also find out that info from espacenet.org.  See http://ep.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP  and plug in the PCT or WO number to find what corresponding patent applications have been filed--but it only lists **SOME** other countries.

6.  No.  They must have a US patent pending.

7.  See #5.

8.  See #5.  Also, go to the PAIR page on the US PTO website and you can see *all* of the info in the U.S. prosecution stage for published applications.  See http://portal.uspto.gov/external/portal/pair

9.  What?!  no 9?!

Title: Re: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by Isaac on Oct 4th, 2007, 9:47am

on 10/04/07 at 06:45:02, patent_type wrote:
6. No. They must have a US patent pending.


Would that include a PCT application published in English, designating the US that had not yet entered the national stage?

Those application are considered to be like US applications for some purposes.  Maybe not for this though.



Title: Re: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by patent_type on Oct 4th, 2007, 10:45am
A PCT patent application published in English is not pending in the U.S.  It can be made into a pending application in the U.S. (at which point in would be entitled to a particular filing date, etc.), but it likely would be considered deceptive, or at least improper, to call it "patent pending."  it is no more pending in the U.S. than it is in Zimbabwe at the International phase.  See 35 USC 292.

But I am unaware of any case law specifically on point (anybody know one?) and could be completely wrong.  Wouldn't be the first time--just ask my spouse.   ;D

Title: Re: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by lemonbar on Oct 4th, 2007, 11:38am
Thanks again to everyone for their insightful posts.

I used the www . wipo . int site and don't see the US beeing listed. Not sure if US just isn't posting it though. It's been over 30 months since app date now.

I was searching for the inventers name, title combo and even some key abstract words but can't see any US app date at all.

They filed the WIPO PCT listing US as a state. If they did continue with that filing and filed with the US then would it show or can they get it to be private for some reason. Doesn't make sense since the PCT was already published however.

I'm thinking that their chance to get a patent in the US died since I don't see any listisng of US filing on the wipo website, but I do see other states listed, and I also see ISA stating prior-art, non-inventive and novelty issues. They did get a Industrial Use A-OK though.

Is my thinking correct or what further reasearch should I do to get this answer?

Is the below information just for the ISA and PCT app process?

What does the [2007/36] mean?

They did have some problems as stated and it looks like they filed some new paperwork under R.86(2). Why can't I see a copy of this anywhere?

Examination procedure:  

01/04/2007  Amendment under R.86(2) (claims and/or description)  

015/05/2007  Request for examination was made [2007/36]  

Title: Re: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by patent_type on Oct 4th, 2007, 12:29pm
You won't see national filings at the WIPO website.  Well, there are listings of some of the application numbers for some of the states.  But don't rely on that for whether an application was filed or not filed. Try espacenet at http://ep.espacenet.com/advancedSearch?locale=en_EP

[2007/36] is the 36th week of year 2007.

If 30 months has passed, then you should be able to see all of the PCT stage documents on the WIPO site. Are you using http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/search-adv.jsp to search for the PCT application?

Title: Re: International Patent Number WIPO PCT
Post by lemonbar on Oct 4th, 2007, 12:46pm
Yes I'm using that as well as a paid search engine and the USPTO site as to look for any clue that a US patent is pending. I know they can legally put that after filling a WIPO PCT correct? But its been more then 30 months.

The latest notices are:

- International Preliminary Report on Patentability Chapter I (IPRP1)

- Written Opinion of the International Search Authority (WOSA)

and those were back around March.

I'm gathering you might be saying that the States listed in the National Phase entries don't have to be correct even at this point? I don't see US listed.

They have patent pending on their product and it may be federal fraud to have it as such given what I see (don't see) so far.

Any ideas? Is 30 months from WIPO PCT filing date a hard and fast rule?

Does this then exclude them from ever getting a patent in the US or do they have other options since they are filing fees, etc with current dates?

(Thank you)



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