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Bill Richards
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Oral Disclosures
« on: Aug 29th, 2006, 2:29pm »
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I think this is the proper place to post this.
I'm having an ongoing discussion with some colleagues about oral disclosures to third parties.  One side feels they trigger 102(b) and others don't see any "printed publication" so disagree.  Comments?
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William B. Richards, P.E.
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Isaac
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Re: Oral Disclosures
« Reply #1 on: Aug 29th, 2006, 3:36pm »
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on Aug 29th, 2006, 2:29pm, Bill Richards wrote:
I think this is the proper place to post this.
I'm having an ongoing discussion with some colleagues about oral disclosures to third parties.  One side feels they trigger 102(b) and others don't see any "printed publication" so disagree.  Comments?

 
Oral disclosures that constitute offers for sale do of course trigger 102(b) regardless of whether there is a writing.
 
Besides that though, it is possible that a presentation that includes slides etc., displays, or a even drawings on a white board might generate some 102(b) disclosure stuff even if none of the material is given to any third parties to keep.   There was a CAFC case in the not to distant past in which a display that was mounted in a public area where a conference was taking place that could have been copied by attendees was held to be a 102(b) disclosure.    
 
See In Re CARL F. KLOPFENSTEIN and JOHN L. BRENT, JR.
 
http://otl.stanford.edu/inventors/UNITEDSTATESCOURTOFAPPEALSFORTHEFEDERA LCIRCUIT11.htm
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Bill Richards
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Re: Oral Disclosures
« Reply #2 on: Aug 29th, 2006, 4:29pm »
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Thanks Isaac.
So, would a strictly oral disclosure, even if it were enabling, trigger a statutory bar?  That is, mustn't there be a "printed" publication of some sort?  (Slides, posters, etc?)  I'm specifially thinking about the independent inventor that tells his buddies at work about his invention and then waits over a year to apply.
Or, what about the scientist who presents at a seminar without slides or any printed material?
« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2006, 4:30pm by Bill Richards » IP Logged

William B. Richards, P.E.
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Re: Oral Disclosures
« Reply #3 on: Aug 29th, 2006, 7:06pm »
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To be honest, I don't know the answer.  The first thing that came to mind was Eolas, but that involved a demonstration of a prototype to two engineers without NDAs -- a public use.  
 
So, maybe...  No printing, no use, no offer to sell, maybe no 102(b) problem.  Of course, that's in the US only -- other countries have different standards.  And, I certainly wouldn't rely on that when you have the opportunity to file first then blab -- all you need is one blogger to ruin your day.
 
I presume posting something on the web is a "printed publication".  I wonder if there's authority out there to that effect -- or to whether cursive writing is "printing."  Wink
 
Regards.
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Re: Oral Disclosures
« Reply #4 on: Aug 29th, 2006, 8:30pm »
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on Aug 29th, 2006, 4:29pm, Bill Richards wrote:
Thanks Isaac.
So, would a strictly oral disclosure, even if it were enabling, trigger a statutory bar?  That is, mustn't there be a "printed" publication of some sort?  (Slides, posters, etc?)  I'm specifially thinking about the independent inventor that tells his buddies at work about his invention and then waits over a year to apply.
Or, what about the scientist who presents at a seminar without slides or any printed material?

 
Assuming we are not talking about public use or a sale or offer to sell, something constituting a printed publication is needed.  I take In Re Carl to suggest that the "publication" aspect may not require a physically transfer of the written/printed materials.
« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2006, 6:14am by Isaac » IP Logged

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