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(Message started by: ray.nyls on Dec 9th, 2007, 7:25pm)

Title: read the mpep???
Post by ray.nyls on Dec 9th, 2007, 7:25pm
Hi All,

I recently came across a suggestion that 80% of the questions come from chapters mpep 700, 1800, and 2100;

any recent test takers or those studying for a while have a sense of how true this may be?  

has anyone considered actually skimming through the whole of the mpep?

Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by BotchedExperiment on Dec 10th, 2007, 1:32pm
Yes, I think it is safe to say that the majority of questions are from chapters 600, 700, 1800, and 2100.

In addition to all the course study, John White of PLI suggests skimming 700 once, reading 1800 2x and 2100 3x.

I think that it would be a very exceptional person who could read the MPEP and retain enough information to pass the bar.

Additionally, there are several chapters of the MPEP that are not tested at all.  And many sections within tested chapters that wind up not being tested, or are only tested very infrequently.  Therefore, another problem with reading the MPEP is you don't have a good idea of how heavily to weigh specific sections within chapters.  

Finally, if you have not yet done so, look at a couple questions from old exams to help you see the level of detail required to choose the best answers.


Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by ray.nyls on Dec 10th, 2007, 8:22pm
your reply very help, and makes sense - thanks!

I guess reading about so many people on this forum not passing on a first try is a little unnerving and makes you want to try and do everything...

I've taken one practice test so far but completely agree with what you are saying about understanding the level of detail knowledge required from reading/answering the questions...

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how to use the mpep WHILE answering questions though... "search" function doesn't appear to work too well and I guess I don't have enough familiarity with the MPEP to know what chapter/section to jump to for an answer...

obviously more discussion/suggestions welcome from anyone...

regards

Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by asdf on Dec 11th, 2007, 6:00pm

on 12/10/07 at 13:32:03, BotchedExperiment wrote:
Additionally, there are several chapters of the MPEP that are not tested at all.  And many sections within tested chapters that wind up not being tested, or are only tested very infrequently.  Therefore, another problem with reading the MPEP is you don't have a good idea of how heavily to weigh specific sections within chapters.

Which sections don't get tested??  I doubt 1000 (who decides what) does, but I think I've seen past questions on all the others.

Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by BotchedExperiment on Dec 11th, 2007, 10:42pm
I responded to this earlier but now I don't see my post...not sure what happened.

Although there may only be a few chapters which absolutely aren't tested, there are several chapters that will MAYBE produce a couple questions total.

So, yes, for example you'll see questions about interference (2300), but the question will probably not be testing information found in 2300 per se. Rather it'll be about prior art and 102(g). Further, out of the 2000 question pool, there might be a couple questions where you'll need to know 2300. If you happen to get an interference question that isn't about prior art, access, status, etc. you'll know to search 2300.

As such, I think it would be a waste of time to study chapters other than 600, 700, 1800, and 2100 (as well as 102, 103, 112) until you know these chapters stone cold. Next, I think chapters 1-500 are the most frequently tested.

I don't have my PLI materials with me, so I'll post what I can remember.

This is what PLI has to say about chapters not tested, or very rarely tested:

900
1000 (little if any)
1100 (little if any)
1700
2400 (historicaly has not been tested)
2700 (one question has been asked)

So complicated that it's not worth learning: 2300 (interference proceedings)


P.S. I have no special knowledge about patent bar questions. I'm just repeating what PLI says and giving my opinion.

Somewhere on this forum was a link to a spreadsheet that broke down numbers of questions on a given test (such as oct. 03) by subject, i.e. "pct". From that spreadsheet it was obvious that some of the "tested" chapters didn't have ANY questions from them for several tests.

Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by ray.nyls on Dec 17th, 2007, 4:12am
if anyone who's taken the test could share....

PLI and others suggest READING mpep chapters 700/1800/2100 - in your experience is reading the whole chapter necessary or do you say picking sections within the chapter is more useful?  

i realize doing the questions and then going through the sections as they come up in the questions would probably also be ideal - but there seems to be just so much covered in ch.700 and ch.2100 especiall that you also feel paranoid about NOT reading those...

please share....

Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by smgsmc on Dec 17th, 2007, 11:43am
I studied with Longacre's course.  He's doesn't recommend reading the MPEP page by page...with one exception, which is 2100.  It's a long chapter, but he recommends that you read it in its entirety within a week or two of the exam.  What it affords you are actual case histories of how rules were applied in specific scenarios.  Relative to the dry rules of the other chapters, it's actually interesting.  What you get are the real life scenarios of how the rules are applied, tricky situations that show up in exam questions with specific scenarios (what are examples of public disclosure and experimental use, is a thesis catalogued if the catalog is a bunch of index cards in a shoebox, is a 103 rejection proper if the examiner combines 10 prior art references...these are covered in 2100, but they are not easy lookups because you need to read the scenarios)

Title: Re: read the mpep???
Post by BotchedExperiment on Dec 17th, 2007, 3:06pm
I think the main reason to "read" the key chapters, is so that you have an idea of where things are within the chapters to speed up your searching of material within those chapters.

Since you're certainly going to have to look something up in them, it would not be optimal for the first time you've cracked 'em open to be during the test.

Personally, I'm certainly not trying to necessarily learn anything from reading them, but I am trying to remember specific sections headings, and also somewhat specificially what is contained in the chapters.  There are some interesting parts of 600 and 700 that I'm reading more carefully.



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