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(Message started by: vrglprc on Sep 6^th, 2006, 2:54pm)

Title: From academia to IP
Post by vrglprc on Sep 6^th, 2006, 2:54pm

I'm a PhD and faculty member at an ivy league university in my mid-30's, making a base salary of about $70k. My area of focus is in neuroscience, including expertise in molecular biology and biotechnology.

I'm becoming unhappy with my current career (time pressures of doing research and teaching, obtaining grants, unfavorable workload-to-salary ratio, etc.) and am looking for a new direction. Would life as a patent agent be something worth pursuing? Could I have a more reasonable workload while also earning a good salary? Would I resent being under the thumb of patent attorneys (some of you patent agents out there sound kind of bitter)? Are good jobs even all that easy to come by? Would my background (6+ years of post-PhD research experience at ivy league institutions) be an advantage as a job applicant? Would it make me a better patent agent?

Thanks in advance for your frank advice.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by vrglprc on Sep 6^th, 2006, 3:45pm

Some more probing:

Should I take the patent bar (while still employed in academia), then look for a patent agent job to see if I get anywhere? Or should I try for a job in an advisory/consultant (?) role with an IP firm or biotech company, getting trained in the field that way, then take the patent bar? (In other words, does it work that way?)

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Isaac on Sep 6^th, 2006, 4:18pm

The patent bar is not a huge investment in time or preparation. Preparation time is on the order of several hours per night over several months. Many people pass the thing without having any patent law experience. I would suggest taking preparing to take the patent bar while you explore your opportunities and if you finish your preparation prior to finding a job that you then go ahead and get the exam out of the way.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by chemichael on Sep 6^th, 2006, 5:53pm

I made the exact transsition you are speaking of, although I was teaching at small schools doing a bit of research. I started law school in 2003 and a couple of months later had a part-time position as a scientific advisor while I finished out the academic year at the university I was at. The two worlds are like night and day (probably less so for you coming from your current situation). However, I am glad I made the switch. I enjoy my new career and find it much more challenging than teaching. Isaac's suggestion is a good one if you have time to prepare for it. You will better be able to market yourself if you have passed the bar. That being said, because of your unique situation as a professor, you may be able to pick up some part-time work while you finish up your commitments to the university. This allows your employer to evaluate you and you can get some exeprience to see if the field is right for you.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Patent Agent on Sep 7^th, 2006, 7:46am

Back Away!
Run!
Never look back!
Being a patent agent sucks!

The two earlier responses are from attorneys.
I'm assuming you don't want to go to law school.
If you don't want to go to law school then don't touch this career.

You might make more money than academia in the short run ... but as an agent you'll hit an income ceiling fairly quickly. That ceiling will be a bit higher than your current salary but lower than that of successful older professors. But the money won't matter ... it's the lack of dignity that bites.

You'll find little or no success in this career as an agent. Attorneys will put you to work cleaning up missing parts issues, repairing their 35USC112 mistakes, briefing them ad nauseam on the smallest matters and then sidelining you when a decision must be made. I'll translate all that ... you'll be an errand boy! You'll have the intellectual challenges of a floor sweeper!

Has this bitter agent answered your question?

DON"T LISTEN TO ATTORNEYS ON THE MATTER OF BEING AN AGENT!

There, if I've saved one soul from this fire then my life may not have been wasted.

Patent Agent

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Isaac on Sep 7^th, 2006, 7:56am

Not to confirm or refute the experience of the bitter patent agent, but I'd suggest seriously considering going to law school if you want to make a career of this. In most jurisdictions it is impossible (illegal) for patent agents to become partners in a law firm which signficantly affects their career track and their potential earnings.

That said, there I don't believe that the starting out as a patent agent is a bad idea at all. I'd be very surprised if you could not find a work/salary ratio higher than what you have now, and I think PhDs are far less likely to be abused in the ways the bitter one describes.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Wiscagent on Sep 7^th, 2006, 8:28am

“Patent Agent” appears to be dissatisfied with his or her job.

It’s important to distinguish a particular job with being a patent agent in general. Registration as a patent agent does not require that you work as “an errand boy” in a law firm.

Working conditions among law firms vary. Isaac noted that agents, relative to attorneys, have limited career tracks and potential earnings. That is certainly true in a law firm. But shocking as this may be to many attorneys, not everyone sees being a partner in a law firm as the be-all end-all goal of their existence.

Patent firms, owned and operated by patent agents, clearly do not treat patent agents as second class citizens. Working as a free lance agent is an option as well.

Additionally, there are many opportunities for a patent agent to work in patent liaison and intellectual property management roles.

Vrglprc, I don’t see how learning more about patent law and the intellectual property business and registration as a patent agent would limit your options.

Good luck,

Richard Tanzer

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Isaac on Sep 7^th, 2006, 8:38am

Well said Mr. Tanzer.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Patent Agent on Sep 7^th, 2006, 8:51am

... since Isaac brought it up ...
the bitter patent agent holds a PhD.

Starting out as a patent agent IS a BAD IDEA.
If you're interested in patent work, forget the patent agent route. You'll be burned out and disgusted with your career like so many others.

You asked for frank advice ... there it is.

Whatever you do ... DON"T LISTEN TO ATTORNEYS WHEN LOOKING FOR ADVICE ABOUT BEING AN AGENT.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by Wiscagent on Sep 7^th, 2006, 9:15am

"Whatever you do ... DON"T LISTEN TO ATTORNEYS WHEN LOOKING FOR ADVICE ABOUT BEING AN AGENT."

Full disclosure: I'm a non-PhD patent agent.

Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that my advice is good.

Richard Tanzer

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by chemichael on Sep 7^th, 2006, 9:16am

Just to be clear....I am still in law school (I graduate next year) and have been working as a scientific advisor since 2003. I passed the patent bar in 2005. I have never been mistreated in the firms I have worked at. I nor work for a small boutique firm and the two partners who founded the firm treat us as equals. I love my work and have never had a doubt about my decision. This disgruntled one's experience is unfortunate, but in my experience, it is the exception rather than the rule

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by tonyp on Sep 7^th, 2006, 3:06pm

The quality of an agent's experience depends entirely on the enviroment of the firm. As a mere "tech advisor" I had near-complete autonomy to interview inventors, draft applications and make prosecution decisions. Did stuff get run by an attorney? Of course. But for confirmation, not direction (unless I was completely stumped).

There are plenty of advisors and agents at my firm who are perfectly content with their autonomy and compensation, including a number who manage their own clients. While it's true that non-attorneys are frequently prohibited from becoming equity partners/shareholders in law firms, these folks are still doing a hell of a lot better than they were as engineers.

For my part, I am a law student (as of two weeks ago) purely because I have broad interests, not because I felt like a second-class citizen. While Bitter Agent's experience may be illustrative of agent life at many or even most firms, it is certainly not the universal experience s/he claims it to be.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by vrglprc on Sep 7^th, 2006, 3:33pm

Thanks all for your advice, pro and con. Good to hear all sides, though on the balance you mostly seem to be, at a minimum, satisfied with your field. I might choose to go for the JD some day, if not necessarily to become a partner, etc., maybe just to open additional possibilities, who knows. But at this point I'm still just gauging whether or not the risk of a transition into this brand new field is worth it. It's also worth keeping in mind that I'm already kind of dissatisfied with what I'm doing now, so everything's relative.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by bjr on Sep 8^th, 2006, 8:13am

I have been practicing as a Patent Agent for 3 years and have had a completely difference experience than 'Patent Agent'. I work at a boutique firm of 50 attorneys, 4 agents and 3 scientific advisors. We are all treated like equals. I love my job.

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by vrglprc on Sep 9^th, 2006, 11:43am

A few days ago I didn't even know what a patent agent was, but am now convinced at giving it a shot. Thanks for this site, what a resource!

I have another question--several of you have mentioned jobs as a "scientific advisor" or the like. What's that all about?

Also, and perhaps related: is it common practice for a law and/or patent firm to hire (eg. full time, part time consultant, etc.) a qualified scientist trying to break into the field, while getting them trained for the patent bar? It is clear from this thread and elsewhere that it is possible to prepare for the bar on one's own and pass it even without previous experience, which I'm likely to be pursuing right now anyway--nothing to lose. Just also curious as to additional options that may be open to me right now.

Also, I've heard that geographical location is not necessarily a limiting factor in finding employment in this field--that work for a firm can often be done predominantly "off site." Does this fit with others' impressions/experience?

Title: Re: From academia to IP
Post by tonyp on Sep 10^th, 2006, 12:45pm

on 09/09/06 at 11:43:57, vrglprc wrote:

I have another question--several of you have mentioned jobs as a "scientific advisor" or the like. What's that all about?

At most firms I know that have such a position, the scientific or technical advisor functions in what is effectively the same role as a patent agent, though unregistered. At my firm most folks start out as tech advisors and take the patent bar after a year or three, though we have hired a few agents laterally.

Quote:

Also, and perhaps related: is it common practice for a law and/or patent firm to hire (eg. full time, part time consultant, etc.) a qualified scientist trying to break into the field, while getting them trained for the patent bar?

I don't know how common a practice it is, but it does happen, and at some firms it happens with regularity.

Quote:

Also, I've heard that geographical location is not necessarily a limiting factor in finding employment in this field--that work for a firm can often be done predominantly "off site." Does this fit with others' impressions/experience?

Geographical factors aren't much of an issue on the client side - lots of firms have clients all over the country. However, on the employment side, it may be a different story. In my experience, the "greener" you are as a prosecutor, the greater the likelihood that your employer will want to keep pretty close tabs on your work, and that often means keeping you in the office close to others of whom you can ask questions and get assistance. As you prove yourself, your autonomy increases, and so do the possibilities for more arms'-length work arrangements.

However, I'd say it's unrealistic and probably detrimental to expect to come up to speed in this field without guidance and regular feedback from someone who knows what they're doing. Though passing the patent bar entitles you to prosecute, it definitely does not enable you to prosecute *well* in the absence of some actual experience.