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Isaac
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Re: Patent Drawings
« Reply #20 on: Sep 18th, 2005, 5:49am »
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Perhaps some of the more picky things are not important and the practioner would be advised to spend his time elsewhere, but there is a "right" way to do some of these things.
 
Rule 84 describes things like lead lines, the proper use of freestanding arrows, size of lettering,
etc.  Perhaps a practitioner doing his own drawings might not
spend much time on some details, but if I would certainly expect
a professional illustrator to get these things right, and in fact
the ones I've worked with have corrected informalities in the stuff I've
given to them.
 
But certainly some things are left up to the particular practioner
the rules say "numbers are preferred" for reference characters.
If some attorney mentoring or supervising you, or your firms guidelines
are to use numbers only, then I think energy spent fighting that
is not justifiable.
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Isaac
gregm170
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Re: Patent Drawings
« Reply #21 on: Sep 30th, 2005, 1:53am »
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Mr. Clark said "I don't know if any reason why 10a, 10b, would be considered inappropriate or undesirable in a US case. "
 
Would using 10a, 10b, etc. be a problem in a PCT?  
 
Greg L. Martinez
SolidStateIP www.solidstateip.com
 
 
 
 
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Greg L. Martinez
SolidStateIP
www.solidstateip.com
www.solidstatepatents.com
ChrisGegg
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Re: Patent Drawings
« Reply #22 on: Oct 5th, 2005, 4:16pm »
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Thanks to PatentDraftsman for starting this discussion.
 
I have one observation to add that all attorneys may want to consider and all draftspersons may want to use as encouragement for attorneys to file formal drawings when the application is originally filed.
 
Recently the USPTO has implemented a slightly different image scanning process which captures graphics ONLY in black and white, not greyscale which was only used for a short time period, but no longer uses.  And even if graphics look like they may be greyscale, look closely and you will notice that what your eyes see as greyscale actually is just stippling (pixellation of black dots).
 
So what does this mean?, what impact does the purely black and white scanning have?  Any drawings which are submitted that are not line drawings have a high chance of being seriously distorted.  In particular, any screen captures and digital images which are filed as informal drawings are likely to turn into entirely black blobs which provide the Examiner little or no opportunity to fairly and accurately examine your application.  (Check some of your PAIR drawings, you might be surprised that some are completely useless.)  And do not necessarily expect to receive a Notice to File Corrected Papers from the initial examination office, because they make their determination based on the actual paper documents which are filed, not the scanned documents.  Which means that the initial examination office does not know what the scan will look like, and does not typically issue a Notice to File Corrected Papers based on greyscale drawings, even though the scan of those greyscale drawings may not reproduce correctly.
 
Unfortunately, not all Examiners will follow MPEP guidance and immediately request corrected drawings.  Some Examiners will proceed with the black blobs on the electronic file wrapper and presume that what they have in front of them is what you provided for them to work with when examining the application.  This can present a serious problem when an examiner proceeds to examine a case without the benefit of drawings which can be interpreted.  And then you have the problem of establishing that the corrected drawings do not introduce new matter.  The Examiner has to request to review the originally filed materials so he/she can see that the corrected drawings actually reflect what was originally filed, but turned into black blobs when scanned.
 
So, a word of caution to anyone who ever files digital images or screen captures.  If the informal drawing has areas of similar brightness, regardless of colors shading, etc., the drawing should be prepared as a formal line drawing before filing.
 
Chris Gegg
Alston & Bird LLP
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Chris Gegg
Alston & Bird, LLP
www.alston.com
JimIvey
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Re: Patent Drawings
« Reply #23 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 11:44am »
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Your points are well-taken.  I'll offer a few tips re acceptable, if not formal, drawings.
 
First, I use OpenOffice.org which includes a draw program (free).  It's easy to use and I can produce nice black and white drawings almost as quickly as sketching by hand.  
 
Second, I frequently include screenshots (since I do a lot of software applications) and they can include shaded areas and/or color images.  Most screen shots translate nicely to black and white, but some require some modification.  I use gimp to convert it to a black and white outline using edge detection and some color space manipulation.  
 
Here's another interesting idea for handling color images: http://www.squaregear.net/gimptips/wood.shtml
 
I'll show you guys what I mean when some of my recent applications are published.
 
Regards,
 
Jim
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James D. Ivey
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Isaac
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Posts: 3472
Re: Patent Drawings
« Reply #24 on: Oct 10th, 2005, 12:05pm »
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Jim,
 
One thing I find very interesting is your use of open source software to do your work.  The use of open document formats in particular has gotten some recent publicity with the Mass state government's initiative to require the use of document formats that do not have vendor lock in.
 
I'm not currently in a position to select my own tools...
 
Have you had any issues of note with respect to submitting patent applications electronically?   I realize that hardly anyone actually uses electronic submittal, but I was wondering if it's even possible to do so without using Word.
 
I know of one practitioner that was used to use a free Autocad clone to do his drawings, but I believe that practitioner is working at a firm now.
 
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Isaac
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