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I have an Invention ... Now What?
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M. Arthur Auslander
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Re: PatentPro Plus
« Reply #5 on: Dec 27th, 2003, 11:26am »
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Reply to Jay,
 
Just being smart does not get good patents. Jerry Lemelson, when he started out, wrote his own patent applications because he could not afford good patent counsel.
 
I got to helping him after one of my clients licenced one of his patents, not for its strength but because it looked good to have a patent number on a commercial article.
 
It is ironic that he died soon after making it very big, and having more patents than any other inventor and regularly using patent counsel.
 
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2004, 10:24am by M. Arthur Auslander » IP Logged

M. Arthur Auslander
Auslander & Thomas-Intellectual Property Law
3008 Johnson Ave., New York, NY 10463
7185430266, aus@auslander.com
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eric stasik
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Re: PatentPro Plus
« Reply #6 on: Dec 28th, 2003, 3:56pm »
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Comments to Jay's posting....  
 
"It's quite true that, if you don't know what you're doing, you can obtain a patent that is so flawed as to be worthless."
 
Correct.  
 
"However, though learning patent law is not easy, it's also not rocket science.  If you do your homework, I believe you can produce your own high-quality patents."
 
Well, it's not rocket science... i'd say it's more like TV repair. Either way, it's damned difficult for a novice.  
 
"In fact, I believe there is no one better suited to write a patent that an inventor who is knowledgeable with respect to patent law, as nobody knows the technology and the invention as well as the inventor."
 
I often begin presentations by saying that inventions and patents have nothing to do with each other. Inventions are improvements in technology, patents are legal documents. Don't confuse them.
 
"Plus, there's so much pleasure in saving yourself so many thousands of dollars that would otherwise subsidize the mahogany furniture and expensive downtown office of an attorney."
 
Schadenfreude is poor motivation for a business decision.  
 
"No offense to attorneys, but there's no reason that producing a 25-page document should cost upwards of $10,000."
 
No reason at all. A good inventor who has some knowledge of patent law and who can write a decent application for patent can save herself many thousands of dollars by doing a lot of the preparatory work.  
 
But imagining that a computer program can grasp all of the nuances of writing AND PROSECUTING an application for patent is fantasy.  
 
You can be sure that the company to whom you try and license your patent will not use a computer program to pick it to pieces. One word too many - or too few - in a claim can, and will, sink your ship.  
 
Frankly, if your invention does not have a clear and convincing potential to generate many tens of thousands of dollars of licensing income, you are probably wasting your time and money filing a patent.  
 
Or you just like to gamble.
 
In my former life, I was the one who received and analyzed patents which outside inventors (and other companies) offered for sale to my company. Licensing is a a hard business folks. Licensing a poorly written, or even partially flawed patent, is an impossible business.  
 
If you are considering to buy a program to help you save money writing an application, you should probably take this as a strong indication that you shouldn't be filing a patent in the first place.  
 
Caveat emptor.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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eric stasik
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http://www.patent08.com

patent08
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M. Arthur Auslander
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Re: PatentPro Plus
« Reply #7 on: Dec 29th, 2003, 6:26am »
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Dear Eric,
 
C'MON!!!!
 
The inventors knowledge does not usually include the subtles of the law and proceedure in getting a patent. There are inventors who, having worked with patents have the skills to write and prosecute patents. They are VERY rare.
 
For instance, and it just recently occurred to me, Jerry Lemelson used to write his own patent applications BUT THAT WAS BEFORE HE WENT BIG TIME. He was the most creative inventor I have ever met or heard of, but he could not get the hang of writing a good patent appliction or prosecuting it.
 
I doubt if Edison wrote his own patent applications.
 
Those skills come from knowedge of the law and its implications and experience and even dealing with patent office examiners.  
 
I don't easily trust doctors and there is a lot of medical information available but I'd be crazy to take care of my medical problems and concerns without consulting  doctor I could trust.
 
I have such a doctor and feel good about consulting him when there are questions in my mind. There is a lifes synergy in this. I would not take care of my medical problems without using a doctor I trust.
 
Just going to a patent lawyer is no panecea either. You really have to find one that will work for the PATENT not just the money.
 
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2004, 10:25am by M. Arthur Auslander » IP Logged

M. Arthur Auslander
Auslander & Thomas-Intellectual Property Law
3008 Johnson Ave., New York, NY 10463
7185430266, aus@auslander.com
Reality Check® ELAINE's Workshop®
eric stasik
Full Member
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director, patent08

   
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Posts: 391
Re: PatentPro Plus
« Reply #8 on: Dec 29th, 2003, 7:52am »
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Dear Mr. Auslander,
 
Isn't that what I said? An inventor who has some knowledge about how to write an application for patent can save herself a lot of money by doing the PREPARATORY work, but unless she is an expert on the nuances of patent law, she shouldn't attempt to file and prosecute her own application for patent (or believe that a computer program can do such work for her.)  
 
The more work an applicant does before she meets with her patent attorney, the less of his time she will have to pay for. Attorneys and agents should always encourage their clients to do as much as possible on their own. There is no reason that an application for patent has to cost $10,000.  
 
This shouldn't be controversial.  
 
As for Mr. Lemmelson, if there was ever an example of someone abusing the patent system, it was Mr. Jerome Lemmelson. I am generally on the side of inventors, but I am also on the side of a well-functioning patent system.  
 
His tactic of filing submarine patents and shaking down successful businesses made him a very wealthy man, but in my opinion it weakened the integrity of the patent system.  
 
Thankfully, the U.S. amended her laws in 1995. By limiting the effective life of a patent to 20 years from the earliest claimed date of priority, they put an end (or at least substantially curtailed) to his type of patent abuse.  
 
Regards,  
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eric stasik
director

http://www.patent08.com

patent08
patent engineering,
business development,
and licensing services
postbox 24203
104 51 stockholm
sweden
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Re: PatentPro Plus
« Reply #9 on: Dec 30th, 2003, 6:25pm »
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Alright, this is the first time I've visited this board.  I'm a poor college student, with a couple of really good ideas.  I do however have a dim perspective as to how to start a patent.  I guess what I'm wondering is how much would it cost (rough estimate) for a lawyer to read over the document to find any errors or weak points.  Thanks.
 
Anon
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